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WSJ report: New York's coronavirus response made pandemic worse

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  • #31
    As many suspected

    Source: NY Nursing Home Deaths May Have Been 50% Higher Than Reported, AG's Office Says


    Gov. Andrew Cuomo has been under fire for months over his nursing home policy and the true number of deaths in those facilities

    Publicly reported nursing home death data in New York may have undercounted the actual deaths related to those facilities by as much as 50 percent, the state's attorney general said.

    Letitia James' office has been investigating nursing homes since last year and released its initial report Thursday.

    "Among those findings were that a larger number of nursing home residents died from COVID-19 than the New York State Department of Health’s (DOH) published nursing home data reflected and may have been undercounted by as much as 50 percent," the office said in a statement.

    The report is likely to immediately re-ignite debate over Gov. Andrew Cuomo's nursing home COVID policies, a huge point of controversy.

    Cuomo initially ordered recovering COVID patients to be sent to nursing homes to free up hospital beds, a policy condemned for potentially increasing deaths there -- an asseration the governor has steadfastly rejected.

    But James' office cited that policy as a potential cause of excess deaths.

    "Government guidance requiring the admission of COVID-19 patients into nursing homes may have put residents at increased risk of harm in some facilities and may have obscured the data available to assess that risk," the report summary said.

    The AP reported in August that the state's nursing home death counts, already among the highest in the nation, might have been substantially undercounted.

    About 70 percent of the nearly 35,000 COVID deaths in New York were people aged 70 and older, according to state data as of Jan. 28.

    This is a developing story.



    Source

    © Copyright Original Source



    IIRC, at least 20% of the deaths caused by the pandemic took place in such facilities -- the same ones Cuomo said he'd close if they didn't accept patients that had tested positive for Covid --and this means that percentage is much higher.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      As many suspected

      Source: NY Nursing Home Deaths May Have Been 50% Higher Than Reported, AG's Office Says


      Gov. Andrew Cuomo has been under fire for months over his nursing home policy and the true number of deaths in those facilities

      Publicly reported nursing home death data in New York may have undercounted the actual deaths related to those facilities by as much as 50 percent, the state's attorney general said.

      Letitia James' office has been investigating nursing homes since last year and released its initial report Thursday.

      "Among those findings were that a larger number of nursing home residents died from COVID-19 than the New York State Department of Health’s (DOH) published nursing home data reflected and may have been undercounted by as much as 50 percent," the office said in a statement.

      The report is likely to immediately re-ignite debate over Gov. Andrew Cuomo's nursing home COVID policies, a huge point of controversy.

      Cuomo initially ordered recovering COVID patients to be sent to nursing homes to free up hospital beds, a policy condemned for potentially increasing deaths there -- an asseration the governor has steadfastly rejected.

      But James' office cited that policy as a potential cause of excess deaths.

      "Government guidance requiring the admission of COVID-19 patients into nursing homes may have put residents at increased risk of harm in some facilities and may have obscured the data available to assess that risk," the report summary said.

      The AP reported in August that the state's nursing home death counts, already among the highest in the nation, might have been substantially undercounted.

      About 70 percent of the nearly 35,000 COVID deaths in New York were people aged 70 and older, according to state data as of Jan. 28.

      This is a developing story.



      Source

      © Copyright Original Source



      IIRC, at least 20% of the deaths caused by the pandemic took place in such facilities -- the same ones Cuomo said he'd close if they didn't accept patients that had tested positive for Covid --and this means that percentage is much higher.
      Yes, at least 70 percent of covid-19 deaths in the US have been people aged 70 and older, and at least a third of them were people in nursing homes.

      Tell me again how much worse Cuomo did than everyone else.

      Comment


      • #33
        I'll try to summarize what's happening.

        This is the key sentence: Cuomo initially ordered recovering COVID patients to be sent to nursing homes to free up hospital beds, a policy condemned for potentially increasing deaths there -- an assertion the governor has steadfastly rejected.
        • Circa March/April 2020, Cuomo put this policy into effect. As best I can recall, the objections started pretty quickly.
        • As people in the nursing homes died, the families complained about the policy and how it impacted them. This kept in visible in the news.
        • I forget when but Cuomo eventually changed the policy.
        • At some point, it came out that Cuomo had gotten a big campaign contribution from NY hospitals before announcing the policy.
        • Starting I think in the Fall of 2020, people started asking how many people in nursing homes died of COVID. Cuomo indicated the NY Dept. of Health (DOH) was still compiling the numbers.
        • News organizations started filing Freedom of Information requests for the information. DOH stalled.
        • Finally, not the DOH but the NY AG comes out with the information stating the deaths are understated - and I find 50% pretty significant.
        Did Cuomo do worse than everyone else. I don't know and I think since we're still in the pandemic, it's too early to tell. As I think I posted a long time ago, there was and is so much unknown information and conflicting information (especially Dec 2019 into Spring 2020) that no one did perfectly.

        Cuomo does have a big problem with optics. He has continually presented his actions as science based. The whole episode now brings that into question. Mix in Cuomo's rather arrogant self-righteousness and it explains why people are so upset about this.
        "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

        "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
          I'll try to summarize what's happening.

          This is the key sentence: Cuomo initially ordered recovering COVID patients to be sent to nursing homes to free up hospital beds, a policy condemned for potentially increasing deaths there -- an assertion the governor has steadfastly rejected.
          • Circa March/April 2020, Cuomo put this policy into effect. As best I can recall, the objections started pretty quickly.
          • As people in the nursing homes died, the families complained about the policy and how it impacted them. This kept in visible in the news.
          • I forget when but Cuomo eventually changed the policy.
          • At some point, it came out that Cuomo had gotten a big campaign contribution from NY hospitals before announcing the policy.
          • Starting I think in the Fall of 2020, people started asking how many people in nursing homes died of COVID. Cuomo indicated the NY Dept. of Health (DOH) was still compiling the numbers.
          • News organizations started filing Freedom of Information requests for the information. DOH stalled.
          • Finally, not the DOH but the NY AG comes out with the information stating the deaths are understated - and I find 50% pretty significant.
          Did Cuomo do worse than everyone else. I don't know and I think since we're still in the pandemic, it's too early to tell. As I think I posted a long time ago, there was and is so much unknown information and conflicting information (especially Dec 2019 into Spring 2020) that no one did perfectly.

          Cuomo does have a big problem with optics. He has continually presented his actions as science based. The whole episode now brings that into question. Mix in Cuomo's rather arrogant self-righteousness and it explains why people are so upset about this.
          Let's not forget that one of his first rationales for ordering nursing homes to take patients who tested positive for Covid, and threatening those that balked with closure, was that he was only following "Trump's CDC" guidelines which turned out to be completely false.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Stoic View Post

            Yes, at least 70 percent of covid-19 deaths in the US have been people aged 70 and older, and at least a third of them were people in nursing homes.

            Tell me again how much worse Cuomo did than everyone else.
            1. They underreported the deaths by 50%
            2. They kept putting COVID-19 patients back into nursing homes instead of the hospital, spreading the disease to the most vulnerable population.
            3. This even happened AFTER the Navy brought in the military hospital ships to increase available hospital beds.

            So he did A LOT WORSE than anyone else.


            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post

              1. They underreported the deaths by 50%
              2. They kept putting COVID-19 patients back into nursing homes instead of the hospital, spreading the disease to the most vulnerable population.
              3. This even happened AFTER the Navy brought in the military hospital ships to increase available hospital beds.

              So he did A LOT WORSE than anyone else.
              1. After correcting for the underreported deaths, the numbers are in line with the national average.

              2. The disease spreads to the most vulnerable population anyway. Pre-symptomatic staff members bring it in and infect the residents.

              3. Yes, better use should have been made of the hospital ship. As has been said, hindsight is 20-20.

              Comment


              • #37
                Just saw Cuomo blame God.

                And then he said his thoughts and prayers were with those who lost loved ones. When a conservative says that, they get BLASTED.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Cuomo also blamed the Federal government, and almost in the same breath, said it's not about finger-pointing.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                    ....
                    3. Yes, better use should have been made of the hospital ship. As has been said, hindsight is 20-20.
                    This part is precious ---

                    Trump screwed up the whole pandemic thing -- GIT A ROPE!!!!!
                    Cuomo screwed up the whole pandemic thing -- well, gosh, hindsight is 20-20.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                      This part is precious ---

                      Trump screwed up the whole pandemic thing -- GIT A ROPE!!!!!
                      Cuomo screwed up the whole pandemic thing -- well, gosh, hindsight is 20-20.
                      And don't forget to get him an Emmy


                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        And don't forget to get him an Emmy
                        It is obvious that he frequently puts his mouth in motion before his brain is in gear.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                          It is obvious that he frequently puts his mouth in motion before his brain is in gear.
                          More than once he merely repeated what Trump had said, to which the MSM had scoffed at and ridiculed, but when he said it then it was pearls of wisdom.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                            1. After correcting for the underreported deaths, the numbers are in line with the national average.
                            source? NYC had way more nursing home deaths than any other place from what I have heard.

                            2. The disease spreads to the most vulnerable population anyway. Pre-symptomatic staff members bring it in and infect the residents.
                            But Cuomo helped the spread by forcing the nursing homes to take covid positive patients and also not supplying them with enough PPP.

                            3. Yes, better use should have been made of the hospital ship. As has been said, hindsight is 20-20.
                            LOL. Now that is just plain making up an excuse. When you have a hospital ship parked in the docks and it is there for the sole purpose of helping alleviate the hospital overcrowding, how do you just miss that fact until later and go "Doh! We should have used the hospital ship! "



                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              And don't forget to get him an Emmy
                              well he DID put on quite the act.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                source? NYC had way more nursing home deaths than any other place from what I have heard.
                                I'm referring to nursing home deaths as a percentage of all covid-19 deaths.

                                But Cuomo helped the spread by forcing the nursing homes to take covid positive patients and also not supplying them with enough PPP.
                                Forcing nursing homes to take covid positive patients is a bad idea, especially if they aren't prepared for it, but it doesn't seem to have made a huge difference in terms of how many people died.

                                As for PPE, was there some available that went unused?

                                LOL. Now that is just plain making up an excuse. When you have a hospital ship parked in the docks and it is there for the sole purpose of helping alleviate the hospital overcrowding, how do you just miss that fact until later and go "Doh! We should have used the hospital ship! "
                                In hindsight, it's obvious that they could have used the hospital ship to offload patients from hospitals rather than sending them back to their nursing homes.

                                At the time, it wasn't easy to predict how bad things were going to get. If things had gotten so bad that the hospitals and the ship were filled with dying patients, then sending patients back to their nursing homes would have seemed like a much better idea.

                                Comment

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