Huge Job Growth!

[DivineOb]

First, I wouldn't blame Trump for the unemployment. For that matter, if Hillary had been elected president, I wouldn't blame her. This was caused by a force outside of any president's control.

Second, if anyone is to blame, it's the governors of the 50 states who for sake of health shut down their economies. Granted I am now using some hindsight but there had to be a better solution than locking everyone in their houses. I hope IF coronavirus surges in the fall/winter we have a smarter response than everybody go home for a couple months.

There was an alternative to locking down the country. That alternative was aggressive testing, contact tracing, and ensuring and advising the use of face masks. That approach was explicitly discouraged by the Trump administration. The lockdowns are only necessary when you don't do the obvious thing (which we have known is the *right* approach for a long time). South Korea did this. Hong Kong did this. The Czech Republic did this. New Zealand did this.

The unemployment is *directly* on Trump (well, most of it. There would be a hit to employment numbers even if we did everything right). I saw the horror of our response from experts in this area in real time on my Twitter feed.

[Whateverman]

I just get tired of certain people turning EVERY DISCUSSION into a #HateTrump discussion.

That's understandable. I'm pretty rabidly anti-Trump, but trying to keep that in-check allows for more-productive conversations.

As is common with many discussion forums, disagreements between the regulars ends up being as much about personality as anything else (aka. "He's said X in the past, so I don't like him", etc). Often times, political discussions are little more than conflicts between personalities, rather than ideologies...

[Sparko]

There was an alternative to locking down the country. That alternative was aggressive testing, contact tracing, and ensuring and advising the use of face masks. That approach was explicitly discouraged by the Trump administration. The lockdowns are only necessary when you don't do the obvious thing (which we have known is the *right* approach for a long time). South Korea did this. Hong Kong did this. The Czech Republic did this. New Zealand did this.

The unemployment is *directly* on Trump (well, most of it. There would be a hit to employment numbers even if we did everything right). I saw the horror of our response from experts in this area in real time on my Twitter feed.

Gorsh! They should have put YOU in charge!

There weren't enough tests to do that, DOb. Don't you remember? And it would take an army to "contact trace" and a suspension of everyone's civil rights and breaking HIPAA. You also forget the government and scientists were learning about this disease right along with everyone else. Hindsight is great, but not useful.

And those other countries were a lot smaller than the US and don't have the same civil privacy protections.

You know that if this was Obama's administration and he did the exact same things Trump did, you and the other liberals would be singing his praises.

[DivineOb]

Gorsh! They should have put YOU in charge!

There weren't enough tests to do that, DOb. Don't you remember? And it would take an army to "contact trace" and a suspension of everyone's civil rights and breaking HIPAA. You also forget the government and scientists were learning about this disease right along with everyone else. Hindsight is great, but not useful.

And those other countries were a lot smaller than the US and don't have the same civil privacy protections.

You know that if this was Obama's administration and he did the exact same things Trump did, you and the other liberals would be singing his praises.

"Sparko" I'm not inclined to sling manure back and forth with someone who constantly insists that I am arguing in bad faith. If you think I would have given Obama a free pass for doing the same things as Trump in this case then go for it. You are wrong but I obviously won't change your mind.

[Cow Poke]

That's understandable. I'm pretty rabidly anti-Trump, but trying to keep that in-check allows for more-productive conversations.

As is common with many discussion forums, disagreements between the regulars ends up being as much about personality as anything else (aka. "He's said X in the past, so I don't like him", etc). Often times, political discussions are little more than conflicts between personalities, rather than ideologies...

Kinda like a marriage... "But I remember when YOU said, back in 1974, that I was....."

[Cow Poke]

.... Often times, political discussions are little more than conflicts between personalities, rather than ideologies...

Funny you should say that today --- I was just explaining to somebody that most of the time, these days, when churches split, it's not over theology or doctrine, but personality, policy, procedure....

[Whateverman]

We love change. It would be great if we could change this country and get all of the liberals out of government and stop all of the rioting and looting going on right now. Change is good.

That represents a return to what you think of as law and order. That's not change.

Even if you can argue that I was wrong (and it's possible), that's not the kind of change I was referring to. Policies & values, ways of solving problems, cultural norms - those are the kinds of change that conservatives generally frown upon. They tend to think the the past was better than the present (more often than liberals).

[Sparko]

That represents a return to what you think of as law and order. That's not change.

Even if you can argue that I was wrong (and it's possible), that's not the kind of change I was referring to. Policies & values, ways of solving problems, cultural norms - those are the kinds of change that conservatives generally frown upon. They tend to think the the past was better than the present (more often than liberals).

So you admit that liberals don't want law and order?