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Michael Flynn: Betrayer of the United States

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  • Michael Flynn: Betrayer of the United States

    All are welcome to respond in this thread if they can substantiate their claims by pointing *directly* to underlying documents.

    https://www.motherjones.com/politics...united-states/


    Up until now, the Flynn scandal has generally centered on his criminal case, in which Flynn, Donald Trump’s first national security adviser, was charged with—and pleaded guilty to—lying to FBI about his calls with Kislyak. Flynn told bureau agents that he had not discussed the sanctions imposed on Russia by the Obama administration in response to Vladimir Putin’s attack on the 2016 election. Well, he had. And Flynn had even encouraged the Russians to not retaliate severely, suggesting that when Trump took office things between Moscow and Washington could be smoothed over. The FBI knew this because US intelligence had intercepted those calls, presumably part of routine surveillance of the Russian official. Flynn took a deal, and he pleaded guilty to lying to avoid being charged for an unrelated crime (failing to register as a foreign agent for Turkey).

    But what is most scandalous and damning in these transcripts is what Flynn did not say.

    At no point does Flynn castigate Kislyak for Russia’s intervention in the 2016 election. He does not confront the Russian ambassador for Putin’s covert operation to subvert American democracy. He does not tell Kislyak that Moscow will have to pay a price for hacking the Democrats and using the stolen information to influence the election for Trump’s benefit. Flynn, a former head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, does not warn Kislyak against any further Russian information warfare targeting the United States. As the Obama administration was trying to impose a punishment on Putin for that attack, Flynn, on behalf of the Trump gang, was sending an utterly different message: We don’t care about that.


    Think about this perverse set of interactions: the incoming national security adviser was essentially telling a foreign adversary that the new president wasn’t concerned about an attack on the United States and, moreover, indicating that Trump didn’t intend to do anything about it. In fact, Flynn was signaling to Putin that once Trump took office, Trump wouldn’t be pursuing the matter and, instead, would be reaching out to Russia as a partner. (A few months later, Trump, in the Oval Office, would tell Kislyak that directly.)



    I appreciate this angle which I hadn't seen explored before. The fact that Flynn spoke in such a subservient and obsequious manner shows his cowardice and unsuitability for his short-lived role. The sooner he ends up in jail after blowing up his quite generous plea deal the better.

  • #2
    Originally posted by DivineBoob View Post
    All are welcome to respond in this thread if they can substantiate their claims by pointing *directly* to underlying documents.
    And then you quote an unsubstantiated opinion piece from Mother Jones. I appreciate the irony.

    Anyway, you're already well aware of the facts about the case against General Flynn because I directed you to them in another thread:
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    1) There was nothing illegal or even questionable in any of Flynn's phone calls with the Russian ambassador.
    2) The agents who originally conducted the ambush interview with Flynn did not believe he was being untruthful.
    3) The FBI was in the process of closing the case when corrupt officials intervened.
    4) The FBI led by James Comey then conspired with the White House to frame Flynn for a crime he never committed.
    5) The interview notes were altered by the FBI to make uncertain statements look like unequivocal denials.
    6) Flynn's council prior to Sydney Powell was incompetent, unethical, or both.
    7) Confronted with the falsified evidence and threats to his son, Flynn was coerced into pleading guilty to false charges.

    It's worth repeating: None of this is guesswork or speculation. It is irrefutable fact. Unfortunately, the innocent General is still not in the clear because now he has a corrupt federal judge standing in his way. We can only hope that justice is done and that a higher court accepts Sydney Powell's appeal to either order Judge Sullivan to honor the DOJ's request to drop charges, or have Dirty Sullivan removed from the case and replaced with someone who actually respects the law.

    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      And then you quote an unsubstantiated opinion piece from Mother Jones. I appreciate the irony.

      Anyway, you're already well aware of the facts about the case against General Flynn because I directed you to them in another thread:
      MM, you are no longer welcome in this thread for violating my reasonable request. Post again and I will report you.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
        MM, you are no longer welcome in this thread for violating my reasonable request. Post again and I will report you.
        "All are welcome to respond in this thread if they can substantiate their claims by pointing *directly* to underlying documents."

        I followed your ground rules to the letter.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          "All are welcome to respond in this thread if they can substantiate their claims by pointing *directly* to underlying documents."

          I followed your ground rules to the letter.
          I have reported your post.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
            All are welcome to respond in this thread if they can substantiate their claims by pointing *directly* to underlying documents.

            https://www.motherjones.com/politics...united-states/


            Up until now, the Flynn scandal has generally centered on his criminal case, in which Flynn, Donald Trump’s first national security adviser, was charged with—and pleaded guilty to—lying to FBI about his calls with Kislyak. Flynn told bureau agents that he had not discussed the sanctions imposed on Russia by the Obama administration in response to Vladimir Putin’s attack on the 2016 election. Well, he had. And Flynn had even encouraged the Russians to not retaliate severely, suggesting that when Trump took office things between Moscow and Washington could be smoothed over. The FBI knew this because US intelligence had intercepted those calls, presumably part of routine surveillance of the Russian official. Flynn took a deal, and he pleaded guilty to lying to avoid being charged for an unrelated crime (failing to register as a foreign agent for Turkey).

            But what is most scandalous and damning in these transcripts is what Flynn did not say.

            At no point does Flynn castigate Kislyak for Russia’s intervention in the 2016 election. He does not confront the Russian ambassador for Putin’s covert operation to subvert American democracy. He does not tell Kislyak that Moscow will have to pay a price for hacking the Democrats and using the stolen information to influence the election for Trump’s benefit. Flynn, a former head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, does not warn Kislyak against any further Russian information warfare targeting the United States. As the Obama administration was trying to impose a punishment on Putin for that attack, Flynn, on behalf of the Trump gang, was sending an utterly different message: We don’t care about that.


            Think about this perverse set of interactions: the incoming national security adviser was essentially telling a foreign adversary that the new president wasn’t concerned about an attack on the United States and, moreover, indicating that Trump didn’t intend to do anything about it. In fact, Flynn was signaling to Putin that once Trump took office, Trump wouldn’t be pursuing the matter and, instead, would be reaching out to Russia as a partner. (A few months later, Trump, in the Oval Office, would tell Kislyak that directly.)



            I appreciate this angle which I hadn't seen explored before. The fact that Flynn spoke in such a subservient and obsequious manner shows his cowardice and unsuitability for his short-lived role. The sooner he ends up in jail after blowing up his quite generous plea deal the better.
            Exactly. Flynn also said to Kislyak: you and I know what U.S. Intelligence has on you. Flynn was basically acknowledging that he was aware of the fact of the Russian cyber activity against the U.S., but, not to worry, because the Trump administration was going to give them a pass on that once they took office.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DivineBoob View Post
              I have reported your post.
              That's fine. I just find it ironic that you lead off your thread with an unsubstantiated editorial from Mother Jones and then demand that anybody who responds support their claims with documentation. This I did, providing a source for every one of my assertions, despite your own failure to lead by example.

              But as far as the topic of the thread is concerned, the FBI had the Flynn transcripts years ago because they were actively monitoring the General. Now if Flynn had broken the law, as Mother Jones' unsubstantiated editorial claims, don't you think the FBI would have simply charged him with a crime using the transcripts as evidence instead of falsifying the evidence and coercing the good General into pleading guilty to lying?
              Last edited by Mountain Man; 05-31-2020, 04:33 PM.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                That's fine. I just find it ironic that you lead off your thread with an unsubstantiated editorial from Mother Jones and then demanded that anybody who responds back up their claims with documentation. This I did, providing a source for every one one of my assertions, despite your own failure to lead by example.
                It is substantiated, MM. It's referencing the transcripts themselves. Does Flynn castigate Kislyak for Russian intervention? No! Does Flynn confront Kislyak for Putins covert operation to undermine American Democracy? No! Does Flynn warn Kislyak against further information warfare? No! Does that send a message that the Trump Administration doesn't care about the Russian attack on American democracy? Yes, it does!
                But as for the topic of the thread is concerned, the FBI had the Flynn transcripts years ago because they were actively monitoring the General.
                Of course, they are their transcripts after all.

                Now don't you think that if Flynn had broken the law, they would have simply charged him with a crime using the transcripts as evidence instead falsifying the evidence and coercing the good General into pleading guilty to lying?
                Not if they wanted him to cooperate in ongoing investigations. That's what a plea deal is all about, and that is what Flynn chose to do.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
                  Not if they wanted him to cooperate in ongoing investigations. That's what a plea deal is all about, and that is what Flynn chose to do.
                  I've told you before that's not how plea deals work. First you charge the little fish with the big crime, get his confession and testimony on the record, then let him plead down to a lesser crime in exchange for his cooperation. You then use his on-the-record testimony as evidence against the big fish.

                  Now what's missing in General Flynn's case? That's right: he was never charged with the big crime.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    I've told you before that's not how plea deals work. First you charge the little fish with the big crime, get his confession and testimony on the record, then let him plead down to a lesser crime in exchange for his cooperation. You then use his on-the-record testimony as evidence against the big fish.
                    Well, you may have told me that before, but as usual you are wrong. A defendent does not have to be charged with a crime in order to plea. You probably got that notion from Breitbart.
                    Now what's missing in General Flynn's case? That's right: he was never charged with the big crime.
                    See above.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      Well, you may have told me that before, but as usual you are wrong. A defendent does not have to be charged with a crime in order to plea. You probably got that notion from Breitbart.

                      See above.
                      And by the way MM, the DOJ, i.e the corrupt Atty General Barr, is not even questioning that aspect of the case, and you can bet your bottom dollar if the plea deal was illegal in any way, that would be the first thing he would go after.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        That's fine. I just find it ironic that you lead off your thread with an unsubstantiated editorial from Mother Jones and then demand that anybody who responds support their claims with documentation. This I did, providing a source for every one of my assertions, despite your own failure to lead by example.
                        The request I made was for a direct link to the underlying documents. You aren't stupid and based on our recent history clearly knew that what you pasted was *not* what I was asking for. Kindly respect my wishes and stop posting in this thread.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DivineBoob View Post
                          The request I made was for a direct link to the underlying documents.
                          Which I provided.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            Which I provided.
                            MM, I am asking you again to please stop posting in this thread. I don't want your contributions here.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DivineBoob View Post
                              MM, I am asking you again to please stop posting in this thread. I don't want your contributions here.
                              So I follow your rules to the letter, and you still want to ban me from your thread. That's lame, bro.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment

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