More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study

[DivineOb]

https://apnews.com/a5077c7227b8eb8b0dc23423c0bbe2b2

A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.

The nationwide study was not a rigorous experiment. But with 368 patients, it’s the largest look so far of hydroxychloroquine with or without the antibiotic azithromycin for COVID-19, which has killed more than 171,000 people as of Tuesday.

The study was posted on an online site for researchers and has been submitted to the New England Journal of Medicine, but has not been reviewed by other scientists. Grants from the National Institutes of Health and the University of Virginia paid for the work.

So, not yet peer reviewed. But certainly puts the damper on this being the promised miracle cure .

[mikewhitney]

https://apnews.com/a5077c7227b8eb8b0dc23423c0bbe2b2

A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.

The nationwide study was not a rigorous experiment. But with 368 patients, it’s the largest look so far of hydroxychloroquine with or without the antibiotic azithromycin for COVID-19, which has killed more than 171,000 people as of Tuesday.

The study was posted on an online site for researchers and has been submitted to the New England Journal of Medicine, but has not been reviewed by other scientists. Grants from the National Institutes of Health and the University of Virginia paid for the work.

So, not yet peer reviewed. But certainly puts the damper on this being the promised miracle cure .

Whew! The last thing we would want right now is a cure.

It seems odd that the study found no benefits when doctors have identified so many cases where chloroquine works. If the study had intersected with some of the results found out in the field, the study would be more trustworthy. Instead, we probably just found more incompetence for the government to handle things decently for the people.

It does not appear that the chloroquine was used with zinc. It has been theorized that the chloroquine acts to open a pathway for the zinc to enter into the cell so that the zinc can do its work. I don't think there is a damper on the miracle cure yet. We just need to do the research on more varied use of chloroquine.

[Starlight]

So, not yet peer reviewed. But certainly puts the damper on this being the promised miracle cure .

The studies last week from Brazil and France on (hydroxy)chloroquine found the same results.

It's okay, Trump has moved on to a new miracle cure. His favourite now seems to be Remdesivir, even if he can't pronounce it.

Among others I'm seeing vaccine hyper-over-optimism. Apparently no matter how many times some people are told that making vaccines takes on the order of a year or two, they'll choose to believe that a vaccine will be out in a month or two.

[Sparko]

The studies last week from Brazil and France on (hydroxy)chloroquine found the same results.

It's okay, Trump has moved on to a new miracle cure. His favourite now seems to be Remdesivir, even if he can't pronounce it.

Among others I'm seeing vaccine hyper-over-optimism. Apparently no matter how many times some people are told that making vaccines takes on the order of a year or two, they'll choose to believe that a vaccine will be out in a month or two.

Don't forget antibody treatment from people who have recovered. Not a permanent solution, but it could get someone over a current infection with C-19

[Mountain Man]

Whew! The last thing we would want right now is a cure.

As Joe Biden recently said, "We have to take care of the cure. That will make the problem worse, no matter what. No matter what."

[DivineOb]

Whew! The last thing we would want right now is a cure.

The last thing we want is people pushing medicines without properly evaluating their effectiveness. That I am not disappointed to see Trump humiliate himself and you once again is not the issue.

[mikewhitney]

The early french study was with 200mg, 3 times a day, of oral hydoxychloroquine sulfate.
https://www.mediterranee-infection.c...ID-IHU-2-1.pdf

I could not tell the oral dosage of Chloroquine diphosphate in the VA study. The study reports safe levels in serum testing, so it is hard to compare to the earlier french study. In the VA study 2/3 were black. 66% of the patients had diabetes.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...920v1.full.pdf

[mikewhitney]

The last thing we want is people pushing medicines without properly evaluating their effectiveness. That I am not disappointed to see Trump humiliate himself and you once again is not the issue.

The other last thing we want is research that may have flaws in it. These days it is hard to tell whether the field reports by doctors are untruthful or whether the (of all things ) VA hospital testing is good research.

[shunyadragon]

https://apnews.com/a5077c7227b8eb8b0dc23423c0bbe2b2

A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.

The nationwide study was not a rigorous experiment. But with 368 patients, it’s the largest look so far of hydroxychloroquine with or without the antibiotic azithromycin for COVID-19, which has killed more than 171,000 people as of Tuesday.

The study was posted on an online site for researchers and has been submitted to the New England Journal of Medicine, but has not been reviewed by other scientists. Grants from the National Institutes of Health and the University of Virginia paid for the work.

So, not yet peer reviewed. But certainly puts the damper on this being the promised miracle cure .

It is best not to bet on a quick fix 'promised miracle,' from a politician.

[Mountain Man]

I have to say, any doctor who recklessly prescribed the treatment simply because the President recommended it he should probably lose his medical license.

But the study cited in the OP could use more details. Was it prescribed as early as possible, or only as a last resort? Because that makes a difference in it's effectiveness. Was it a high dose or low dose? Were there other factors that affected patient health? And so on.

[Mountain Man]

The last thing we want is people pushing medicines without properly evaluating their effectiveness. That I am not disappointed to see Trump humiliate himself and you once again is not the issue.

I find it curious that instead of being disappointed that we haven't found a way to save people's lives, you are gloating about the President being supposedly humiliated. This is a textbook example of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

[mikewhitney]

It is best not to bet on a quick fix 'promised miracle,' from a politician.

I never knew these guys were politicians. At least never saw them on any of my voters ballots.

Philippe Gautret, Jean-Christophe Lagier, Philippe Parola, Van Thuan Hoang, Line Meddeb, Jacques Sevestre, Morgane Mailhe, Barbara Doudier, Camille Aubry, Sophie Amrane, Piseth Seng, Marie Hocquart, Julie Finance, Vera Esteves Vieira, Hervé Tissot Dupont, Stéphane Honoré, Andreas Stein, Matthieu Million, Philippe Colson, Bernard La Scola, Véronique Veit Alexis Jacquier, Jean-Claude Deharo, Michel Drancourt, Pierre Edouard Fournier, Jean-Marc Rolain, Philippe Brouqui, Didier Raoult.

[Sparko]

This wasn't really a study but a retroactive look at past cases. It is just as anecdotal as people who claim it works.

[DivineOb]

I find it curious that instead of being disappointed that we haven't found a way to save people's lives, you are gloating about the President being supposedly humiliated. This is a textbook example of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

I'm disappointed that he thought the best use of time, lives, and treasure was this hail Maria instead of putting those resources into testing, equipment, or other things which would have actually helped.

He deserves humiliation (and worse). That he chooses to humiliate himself is his deal.

[oxmixmudd]

Whew! The last thing we would want right now is a cure.

It seems odd that the study found no benefits when doctors have identified so many cases where chloroquine works. If the study had intersected with some of the results found out in the field, the study would be more trustworthy. Instead, we probably just found more incompetence for the government to handle things decently for the people.

It does not appear that the chloroquine was used with zinc. It has been theorized that the chloroquine acts to open a pathway for the zinc to enter into the cell so that the zinc can do its work. I don't think there is a damper on the miracle cure yet. We just need to do the research on more varied use of chloroquine.

That is why we do studies. Sometimes people get better when they would have gotten better without the drug.

Correlation does not necessarily imply causation.