Lab Leak: The conspiracy theory is shaping up to look like real possibility

[Sparko]

Has anyone confirmed that the lab employees were infected with covid-19 yet?

confirming anything is pretty hard when you have a communist government bent on covering everything up and stopping all investigation. There were reports that the lab techs were infected back when this started. I don't think there is any way we will ever KNOW if there was a lab leak or not, unless someone in the Chinese government releases such information. All I am saying is that given all of the circumstantial evidence we have, it is highly LIKELY that a lab leak occurred. More likely than it happening naturally.

[Stoic]

confirming anything is pretty hard when you have a communist government bent on covering everything up and stopping all investigation. There were reports that the lab techs were infected back when this started. I don't think there is any way we will ever KNOW if there was a lab leak or not, unless someone in the Chinese government releases such information. All I am saying is that given all of the circumstantial evidence we have, it is highly LIKELY that a lab leak occurred. More likely than it happening naturally.

I agree.

Some people have been overstating the case, though: "And the first confirmed cases being among employees who worked at the lab is just a coincidence?"

[Sparko]

I agree.

Some people have been overstating the case, though: "And the first confirmed cases being among employees who worked at the lab is just a coincidence?"

I guess it depends on what you mean by "confirmed" - The original report came from a US intelligence report, so the government believed the information to be reliable enough to put it in a report

https://www.wsj.com/articles/intelli...mobilewebshare

[Stoic]

I guess it depends on what you mean by "confirmed" - The original report came from a US intelligence report, so the government believed the information to be reliable enough to put it in a report

https://www.wsj.com/articles/intelli...mobilewebshare

In the given context, I think of "confirmed cases" as "confirmed covid-19 cases", which the intelligence report specifically did NOT say these were.

The significance of the intelligence report is not that it confirms cases of covid-19 in the lab workers, but that it contradicts the claim in the WHO report on the virus's origins:

"The three laboratories in Wuhan working with either CoVs diagnostics and/or CoVs isolation and vaccine development all had high quality biosafety level (BSL3 or 4) facilities that were well-managed, with a staff health monitoring programme with no reporting of COVID-19 compatible respiratory illness during the weeks/months prior to December 2019, and no serological evidence of infection in workers through SARS-CoV-2-specific serology-screening."

This, of course, decreases our trust in what the Chinese say about the origins of the virus, but it's not quite a smoking gun.

[One Bad Pig]

Roger that.

Um....

which one?

Baha'i Bob. He jess cain't hep hisself, and it's painful to watch.

[Cow Poke]

Baha'i Bob. He jess cain't hep hisself, and it's painful to watch.

I think he's a cross between Biden and Trump.

Everything he hates about Trump expressed in ways that makes Biden look cogent.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

I remember back in the 80s or 90s hearing that oriental is a type of rug not a person. Apparently it started in the late 60s when the term "Asian American" first arose.

Here are a few articles

• NBC: Bill to Remove 'Oriental' from Federal Law Passes Senate, Heads to Obama ("On Monday, the Senate unanimously passed a bill that would remove the word from the last known laws in the United States Code where it applies to a person")
• JSTOR (Science paper): Language matters: the vocabulary of racism in health care ("...the vocabulary of health care – both in its literature and the language of officialdom – has proved resistant to the use of this lexicon of acceptable terms, as exemplified by the portrayal of peoples as 'Oriental' and 'Negro'. What makes such language racist is the historical legacy it carries – that is, its symbolic importance.")
• About Japan: What's the Matter with Saying 'The Orient'? ("There are several reasons scholars now avoid using phrases like "the East," "the Far East," and "the Orient," including the exoticism they convey, their association with modern empires, the skewed view of world geography they present, and their tendency to homogenize large, diverse parts of the world as if they shared a single cultural identity")
• Los Angeles Times: The term ‘Oriental’ is outdated, but is it racist? ("It is now politically incorrect to use the word “Oriental,” and the admonition has the force of law: President Obama recently signed a bill prohibiting use of the term in all federal documents. Rep. Grace Meng, the New York congresswoman who sponsored the legislation, exulted that “at long last this insulting and outdated term will be gone for good.”") A somewhat opposing POV
• NPR: 'Oriental': Rugs, Not People ("It's an adjective that used to describe rugs, not people. That's the message New York Gov. David Paterson turned into law this week when he signed a bill that bans state documents from using the term "oriental" when referring to people of Asian or Pacific heritage.")
• NBC: After 50 years of 'Asian American,' advocates say the term is 'more essential than ever' ("The term Asian American, however, signaled a shared and interconnected history of immigration, labor exploitation and racism, as well as a common political agenda. It was also a pushback against the pejorative word "Oriental.")
• Red Tricycle (website for parents): 10 Words & Phrases You Might Not Know Are Racist ("As a term previously used to dehumanize people, “oriental” is a word that can evoke a racist history and make people feel disenfranchised. To understand this, we have to appreciate the origin and historical usage. Scholars, like Erika Lee, have noted that the word “oriental” was tied to anti-Asian sentiment, violence, and xenophobic legislation (such as lynching and the Chinese Exclusion Act) in the 19^th and 20^th centuries.)
• Wikipedia: Orient: ("The term Oriental can be considered a pejorative and disparaging term when used to describe an East Asian person when following social norms of the United States.")
• Collins Dictionary: Oriental ("NOUN offensive 5. (usually cap) a native or inhabitant of the Orient")
• Free Dictionary: Oriental (1. Often Offensive An Asian, especially a South Asian, Southeast Asian, or East Asian.)
• Webster's Dictionary: Oriental (The adjective oriental, which carries strong associations with colonialism and with language that others and exoticizes, is usually considered offensive when used by non-Asian people to describe people of various Asian identities. Its use to describe elements of Asian culture oriental music // an oriental garden // some times has a dated feel, but is not usually regarded as offensive. ... The noun Oriental has a long history of association with colonialism and with language that others and exoticizes people of various Asian identities. While Oriental is not offensive in senses 2 and 3 above, the use of Oriental to refer to a person is usually considered offensive.)

Good heavens are such academic institutions as the Institute of Oriental Studies in Bamberg, the Oriental Institute in Chicago, the Oriental Fine Arts Academy of London, and the School of Oriental and African Studies [also in London] now deemed to be "racist" institutions?

I am reminded of the comment made by Margaret Cho "I think what it is, is that white people like to tell Asians how to feel about race because they're too scared to tell black people. It’s easier, we have less melanin, we’re probably not going to protest, there’s no hashtag #koreanlivesmatter."

[Sparko]

Good heavens are such academic institutions as the Institute of Oriental Studies in Bamberg, the Oriental Institute in Chicago, the Oriental Fine Arts Academy of London, and the School of Oriental and African Studies [also in London] now deemed to be "racist" institutions?

Be careful, you are starting to sound like us conservatives.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

M

Be careful, you are starting to sound like us conservatives.

My comment was intended ironically.

[Sparko]

M
My comment was intended ironically.

So you actually think that those institutions ARE racist then?

[seanD]

Senator Johnson describing the investigation and redacted material...

[Cow Poke]

Senator Johnson describing the investigation and redacted material...

A) Excellent job!
2) Wow

[rogue06]

Good heavens are such academic institutions as the Institute of Oriental Studies in Bamberg, the Oriental Institute in Chicago, the Oriental Fine Arts Academy of London, and the School of Oriental and African Studies [also in London] now deemed to be "racist" institutions?

I am reminded of the comment made by Margaret Cho "I think what it is, is that white people like to tell Asians how to feel about race because they're too scared to tell black people. It’s easier, we have less melanin, we’re probably not going to protest, there’s no hashtag #koreanlivesmatter."

Interestingly I was catching up on the final season of Marvel's Agents of SHIELD, where they had time traveled back into the '50s and kidnapped a bureaucrat to get some information. Turns out the bureaucrat is ex-military intelligence and thinks that the Commies have abducted him and is none too friendly.

Given that the ones who were conducting the interrogation were all minorities (Hispanic, Black and Asian), he threw out a few slurs as well. Later, the female agent is seen storming off and one of the others said they had to pull her off him because he called her ... oriental.



I should add that the episode definitely promoted physical assaulting anyone you deem to be a racist. Mac, who is black and the current director of SHIELD, got upset when the bureaucrat sneered at the Mexican woman about how "her boy" kept her in check. Mac snarls did you call me a boy?

Later when he escapes Mac runs into him and punches him in the face knocking him out and makes the point that he didn't have to hit him, but he hit him because he wanted to.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Interestingly I was catching up on the final season of Marvel's Agents of SHIELD, where they had time traveled back into the '50s and kidnapped a bureaucrat to get some information. Turns out the bureaucrat is ex-military intelligence and thinks that the Commies have abducted him and is none too friendly.

Given that the ones who were conducting the interrogation were all minorities (Hispanic, Black and Asian), he threw out a few slurs as well. Later, the female agent is seen storming off and one of the others said they had to pull her off him because he called her ... oriental.



I should add that the episode definitely promoted physical assaulting anyone you deem to be a racist. Mac, who is black and the current director of SHIELD, got upset when the bureaucrat sneered at the Mexican woman about how "her boy" kept her in check. Mac snarls did you call me a boy?

Later when he escapes Mac runs into him and punches him in the face knocking him out and makes the point that he didn't have to hit him, but he hit him because he wanted to.

Another senior moment?

[CivilDiscourse]

Interestingly I was catching up on the final season of Marvel's Agents of SHIELD, where they had time traveled back into the '50s and kidnapped a bureaucrat to get some information. Turns out the bureaucrat is ex-military intelligence and thinks that the Commies have abducted him and is none too friendly.

Given that the ones who were conducting the interrogation were all minorities (Hispanic, Black and Asian), he threw out a few slurs as well. Later, the female agent is seen storming off and one of the others said they had to pull her off him because he called her ... oriental.



I should add that the episode definitely promoted physical assaulting anyone you deem to be a racist. Mac, who is black and the current director of SHIELD, got upset when the bureaucrat sneered at the Mexican woman about how "her boy" kept her in check. Mac snarls did you call me a boy?

Later when he escapes Mac runs into him and punches him in the face knocking him out and makes the point that he didn't have to hit him, but he hit him because he wanted to.

I don't think it's a coincidence that liberals/democrats had a large debate about whether it was ok to "punch a nazi" only to then end up labeling their political opposition nazi/fascists.