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Donald Trump and the Coronavirus

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  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    What percentage of Republicans have quit the party as a result of Trump being elected?
    Yeah, not me.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Yeah, it's quite rare for Republicans to be so united - that's usually a Democrat thing.
      I am amazed you can make this comment, CP. Look at the two parties. The Republican party is the party of the white. Republican leadership is almost exclusively white and male. 93% of the party belongs to the "cult of Trump." In political office, there are NO Republican liberals (that I know of), relatively few Republican moderates, and a hugely dominant block of mostly Republican conservatives. Anyone who does not toe the party line (in political office) is labeled a "RINO" and primaried. If they are not in political office, they are just labeled a "RINO."

      Now look at the Democratic party. While a lot of the party is progressive/liberal, moderate Democrats are common and there are even conservative Democrats. The party has broad representation across many races and is responsible for most of female representation in Congress.

      You will find pro-gun and pro-gun-control Democrats. You will pretty much only find pro-gun Republicans.
      You will find pro-choice and pro-life Democrats. You will pretty much only find pro-life Republicans.

      The list could go on. There is significant discord within the Democratic party, which is to be expected in a party with such a wide range of views in its membership. Sure, there are voices calling for X or Y to be isolated or claiming they are not a Democrat because they don't believe A, but I know of no equivalent to "RINO" among the Democrats. The phenomenon of uniting against those who disagree is so common in the Republican party that they came up with a name for the people who disagree with the party line.

      I am an Independent because I think the two-party system is fatally flawed. I am in favor of ranked-choice voting because I think it is the only way someone who is NOT a member of either main party will ever be elected. But your characterization of the Democratic party flat out ignores a lot of reality.

      ETA: The really concerning thing, for the Republican party, should be the education situation. The data shows that the party that used to be the bastion of the college-educated is increasingly the bastion of the under-educated, as people with college degrees move aggressively towards the Democratic party while those with a H.S. (or less) education migrate to the Republican party. For ANY party, such a dynamic should be concerning. However, instead of doing anything to address the problem, Republicans simply label Democrats the "intellectually elite" and do everything they can to undermine support for moving towards a college education and even denigrate the entire idea of a college education having value. I've said it before - and I'll probably say it again, the Republican Party has lost its soul.
      Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-08-2020, 10:37 AM.
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        There's actually a lot to that. We get sick of a lot of the nonsense in the Republican party, but see the Democrats as worse.

        Nationally, because of policy, I will vote Republican, but locally, there are a number of times I'll vote for the Democrat - like Sheriff or a judge or.... It's like the local Democrats haven't quite sold their souls to the devil like the national Democrats have.
        I've voted for a Democrat for every position including Senator, Representative, Governor, Lt. Governor, Secretary of State and numerous lower offices -- and plan on doing so again this year. I have yet to vote for one for President but then until the last presidential election my state wasn't in play for decades so I tend to vote third party.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          I am amazed you can make this comment, CP. Look at the two parties.
          Hold on a just a flamin' red hot Cheeto minute --- what's wrong with the comment? Is it not true?
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post

            You will find pro-gun and pro-gun-control Democrats. You will pretty much only find pro-gun Republicans.
            You will find pro-choice and pro-life Democrats. You will pretty much only find pro-life Republicans.
            Pretty much saying the same thing except in your usual biased way.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              I've voted for a Democrat for every position including Senator, Representative, Governor, Lt. Governor, Secretary of State and numerous lower offices -- and plan on doing so again this year. I have yet to vote for one for President but then until the last presidential election my state wasn't in play for decades so I tend to vote third party.
              The lawyer who volunteered to handle my home school defense was a Democrat getting ready to run for county judge. During the process of trial prep, and especially discovery, he decided to switch parties and run as a Republican because of the dirty tricks the Democrats had played.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                Pretty much saying the same thing except in your usual biased way.
                He's pretty much confirming my statement, eh?
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Hold on a just a flamin' red hot Cheeto minute --- what's wrong with the comment? Is it not true?
                  It is true that Republicans have become united (*around the cult of Trump).
                  It is untrue that "that's usually a Democrat thing."


                  *parenthetical added by me
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    It is true that Republicans have become united (*around the cult of Trump).
                    It is untrue that "that's usually a Democrat thing."


                    *parenthetical added by me
                    So, ya still "amazed"? My original comment stands.

                    Edit --- Ah, I see what you did... you dishonestly assigned meaning to my comment that was never there.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      It is true that Republicans have become united (*around the cult of Trump).
                      I think the Republicans have united against the liberal loony left - Trump just happens to embody that and stands up to the loonies and their lackies (is that not a word?) in the press.

                      It is untrue that "that's usually a Democrat thing."
                      You're seriously deluded if you think that pro-life politicians are welcomed in the Democratic party, and GOD FORBID that a traditional marriage advocate should ever try to run as a Democrat

                      *parenthetical added by me
                      Yeah, that's what perverted the intent of the comment.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        So, ya still "amazed"? My original comment stands.

                        Edit --- Ah, I see what you did... you dishonestly assigned meaning to my comment that was never there.
                        There was nothing dishonest here, CP. I added what I thought was uniting them (and made it clear that the paranthetical was my addition). My response was to the incorrect part of your original post - the comment about the Democrats.
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          There was nothing dishonest here, CP. I added what I thought was uniting them (and made it clear that the paranthetical was my addition).
                          Yeah, "dishonest" was too harsh -- you did, however, assign meaning not intended, and used that as your argument.

                          My response was to the incorrect part of your original post - the comment about the Democrats.
                          They had been FAR more united in the past than the Republicans. They were infamous for closing ranks and voting as a block, when Republicans would be all over the place.

                          My comment stands.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            I think the Republicans have united against the liberal loony left - Trump just happens to embody that and stands up to the loonies and their lackies (is that not a word?) in the press.
                            We disagree.

                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            You're seriously deluded if you think that pro-life politicians are welcomed in the Democratic party, and GOD FORBID that a traditional marriage advocate should ever try to run as a Democrat
                            I did not say "welcomed." A similar dynamic is happening in the Democratic party that has already come to fruition in the Republican party: the party is shifting further away from "center" and those who deviate from the party norm are increasingly rejected. In time, I expect the Democratic party to become as single-minded and rabid as the Republican party has become. It's just not there yet. To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Your claim that the Republican polarization is due to the "crazy liberals" is not supported by history. The polarization in the Republican party is pretty much a done deal, as I described earlier. The polarization in the Democratic party is not yet there. Clearly what is happening on the left is a reaction to what has already happened on the right.

                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Yeah, that's what perverted the intent of the comment.
                            I don't see how that "perverted" anything. You may disagree with what has united Republicans, but it doesn't change the fact that they are united, and my response was to the observation about the Democrats. We agree about the unity in the Republican party, if not on the cause.
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                              We disagree.
                              Yeah. Shocking, I know.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                Yeah, "dishonest" was too harsh -- you did, however, assign meaning not intended, and used that as your argument.
                                No - it was never used as my argument. If anything, I muddied the waters by adding the parenthetical, and for that I apologize. But the original post does not depend on "what united them."

                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                They had been FAR more united in the past than the Republicans. They were infamous for closing ranks and voting as a block, when Republicans would be all over the place.

                                My comment stands.
                                I think your perspective of history is skewed by your political stance. But you are welcome to prove me wrong. If they were indeed "infamous for voting as a block," it should be possible for you to identify multiple instances, in the past, of the Democrats doing exactly this. Republican polarization and "block voting" began with Clinton, had a bit of a hiatus during Bush, and then began in earnest at the start of the Obama administration. Shall we call the past "before 2008?"
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                                Comment

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