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  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    A researcher at Johns Hopkins discovered something rather curious: deaths attributed to the China flu have increased throughout 2020 at the exact same rate that deaths attributed to other causes have decreased...

    “Surprisingly, the deaths of older people stayed the same before and after COVID-19. Since COVID-19 mainly affects the elderly, experts expected an increase in the percentage of deaths in older age groups. However, this increase is not seen from the CDC data. In fact, the percentages of deaths among all age groups remain relatively the same,” it read.

    This is interesting for many reasons. There’s no question the virus can be deadly, but just how deadly is something we don’t know. You’d think we would by now, but we don’t. All we get reported to us are numbers, and numbers without context are meaningless. We’re told the “total number of cases in the US,” but this includes everyone who’s ever tested positive. That number dates back to March, and is over 13 million. But the vast majority of those people had it and got over it. There aren’t 13 million Americans infected right now. That would be a more useful number to know, would give the pandemic context, and help give people some perspective, which is likely [why] it's not reported. Can’t scare the hell out of people as easily with reality.

    According to the Hopkins story, “not only has COVID-19 had no effect on the percentage of deaths of older people, but it has also not increased the total number of deaths.”

    [...]

    Shockingly, the story concluded this way:

    "When Briand looked at the 2020 data during that seasonal period, COVID-19-related deaths exceeded deaths from heart diseases. This was highly unusual since heart disease has always prevailed as the leading cause of deaths. However, when taking a closer look at the death numbers, she noted something strange. As Briand compared the number of deaths per cause during that period in 2020 to 2018, she noticed that instead of the expected drastic increase across all causes, there was a significant decrease in deaths due to heart disease. Even more surprising...this sudden decline in deaths is observed for all other causes.

    "This trend is completely contrary to the pattern observed in all previous years. Interestingly ... the total decrease in deaths by other causes almost exactly equals the increase in deaths by COVID-19. This suggests, according to Briand, that the COVID-19 death toll is misleading. Briand believes that deaths due to heart diseases, respiratory diseases, influenza and pneumonia may instead be recategorized as being due to COVID-19."

    https://townhall.com/columnists/dere...llide-n2580829

    Hmmm... is the China flu really worse than the common flu?
    MM the fool believes idiot nutcases over legit doctors and researchers at John's Hopkins and the CDC.

    'Nuf said.
    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • Originally posted by oxmixmuddle View Post

      MM the fool believes idiot nutcases over legit doctors and researchers at John's Hopkins and the CDC.

      'Nuf said.
      oxmixmudd, the liberal moron who thinks the ad hominem fallacy is a sufficient rebuttal to a study that analyzed statistics provided by the CDC.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

        oxmixmudd, the liberal moron who thinks the ad hominem fallacy is a sufficient rebuttal to a study that analyzed statistics provided by the CDC.
        MM, the man with whom all legit rebuttals are summarily dismissed, usually cutting the substance from the response so as not to expose his utter ignorance.

        You have already been rebutted on this MM. And you are incapable of judging the legitimacy of any science you are shown to start with. You just grab whatever trash says what you want it to say and hope that since it has a chart or two and looks 'sciency' that it will convince the audience you care about.

        You're a science illiterate, a Dunning Krugger case study who happens to be able to hold his own when it comes to tit for tat insults.
        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

        Comment


        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

          MM, the man with whom all legit rebuttals are summarily dismissed, usually cutting the substance from the response so as not to expose his utter ignorance.

          You have already been rebutted on this MM. And you are incapable of judging the legitimacy of any science you are shown to start with. You just grab whatever trash says what you want it to say and hope that since it has a chart or two and looks 'sciency' that it will convince the audience you care about.

          You're a science illiterate, a Dunning Krugger case study who happens to be able to hold his own when it comes to tit for tat insults.
          I have never once dismissed a legitimate rebuttal. For the record, the typical liberal handwaves that you deliver are not legitimate rebuttals no matter how much you might think they are.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            A researcher at Johns Hopkins discovered something rather curious: deaths attributed to the China flu have increased throughout 2020 at the exact same rate that deaths attributed to other causes have decreased...

            “Surprisingly, the deaths of older people stayed the same before and after COVID-19. Since COVID-19 mainly affects the elderly, experts expected an increase in the percentage of deaths in older age groups. However, this increase is not seen from the CDC data. In fact, the percentages of deaths among all age groups remain relatively the same,” it read.

            This is interesting for many reasons. There’s no question the virus can be deadly, but just how deadly is something we don’t know. You’d think we would by now, but we don’t. All we get reported to us are numbers, and numbers without context are meaningless. We’re told the “total number of cases in the US,” but this includes everyone who’s ever tested positive. That number dates back to March, and is over 13 million. But the vast majority of those people had it and got over it. There aren’t 13 million Americans infected right now. That would be a more useful number to know, would give the pandemic context, and help give people some perspective, which is likely [why] it's not reported. Can’t scare the hell out of people as easily with reality.

            According to the Hopkins story, “not only has COVID-19 had no effect on the percentage of deaths of older people, but it has also not increased the total number of deaths.”

            [...]

            Shockingly, the story concluded this way:

            "When Briand looked at the 2020 data during that seasonal period, COVID-19-related deaths exceeded deaths from heart diseases. This was highly unusual since heart disease has always prevailed as the leading cause of deaths. However, when taking a closer look at the death numbers, she noted something strange. As Briand compared the number of deaths per cause during that period in 2020 to 2018, she noticed that instead of the expected drastic increase across all causes, there was a significant decrease in deaths due to heart disease. Even more surprising...this sudden decline in deaths is observed for all other causes.

            "This trend is completely contrary to the pattern observed in all previous years. Interestingly ... the total decrease in deaths by other causes almost exactly equals the increase in deaths by COVID-19. This suggests, according to Briand, that the COVID-19 death toll is misleading. Briand believes that deaths due to heart diseases, respiratory diseases, influenza and pneumonia may instead be recategorized as being due to COVID-19."

            https://townhall.com/columnists/dere...llide-n2580829

            Hmmm... is the China flu really worse than the common flu?
            This is an incomplete citation. See the graphs in post #4472 for a good comparison.

            At present deaths due to COVID-19 is higher than any other cause.

            Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-leading-cause-of-death-united-states-this-week/



            COVID-19 was the leading cause of death in the U.S. this week, report says

            COVID-19 was ranked as the leading cause of death in the U.S. this week, with 11,820, according to the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation. That's more than the number of Americans who died from ischemic heart disease (10,724), tracheal, bronchus and lung cancer (3,965), and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (3,766).

            In the U.S., coronavirus cases have surpassed 14.3 million, and more than 278,500 deaths have been recorded, according to figures from Johns Hopkins University. A model often used by the White House said the death toll could hit half a million by March 1 if the current trend continues. That same model said if Americans wore masks for the next four months, it could save 66,000 lives.

            The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has issued new guidance of "universal mask-wearing" in all activity outside of the home. The CDC also recommends anyone who has been potentially exposed to the coronavirus, such as during travel or in a crowded setting, should wear a mask inside the home to protect family members.

            In Illinois, the seven-day average death toll is higher than any other state – up nearly 14 percent over two weeks ago, according to the COVID Tracking Project. At least 11 states shattered their daily cases records with more than 217,000 new COVID-19 cases nationwide added Thursday, Johns Hopkins University reported. That amount could fill the University of Michigan's football stadium – the nation's largest – twice.

            "Soon if it keeps going we are not going to have anywhere to put these people, we're just not," said Jody White, a respiratory therapist at IU Health Methodist Hospital in Indianapolis.

            Meanwhile, as states scramble to meet Friday's deadline for Pfizer vaccine distribution plans, the shipments may not be enough to cover the first in line.

            Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers is worried about vaccine delays after backlogged test and PPE deliveries, writing to Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar, "As vaccine distribution gets underway, our state cannot afford to have this pattern of failed promises repeat."

            And still, Americans seem to be taking more risks. On Thursday night, at least 150 people, including Florida Rep. Matt Gaetz, reportedly gathered for the New York Young Republican's annual gala. That prompted officials to shut the New Jersey venue down.

            "It is beyond the pale that anyone would willingly endanger people in another state, never mind their own," said New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy.

            Leticia Lara knows that danger first-hand. She survived COVID-19, but her 18-year-old daughter, who has special needs, did not.

            "[I feel] like my world is ending," said Lara. "I feel broken, lost."

            There is promising coronavirus vaccine news from Moderna. A new report shows that their trial participants still carried those protective COVID antibodies three months after their second dose. A Food and Drug Administration advisory committee is set to meet next Thursday to discuss emergency approval of the Pfizer vaccine and then a week later to consider the one made by Moderna.

            © Copyright Original Source




            Over 250.000 fatalities this year from COVID-19
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post

              you cannot establish correlation when the increase of tests is a different age range than the age rage of the deaths that increased.

              The only correlation of number of tests is the number of tests. The data you need to look at is the hospitalizations and the fatalities. As of the present there is well over 250.000 COVID-19 deaths, and fatalities ties due to COVID-19 is greater than any other cause of deaths in the USA, and our intensive care beds are mostly full nationwide
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post


                The only correlation of number of tests is the number of tests. The data you need to look at is the hospitalizations and the fatalities. As of the present there is well over 250.000 COVID-19 deaths, and fatalities ties due to COVID-19 is greater than any other cause of deaths in the USA, and our intensive care beds are mostly full nationwide
                You are not responding to the issue that I was responding to.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post

                  You are not responding to the issue that I was responding to.
                  You stated:

                  you cannot establish correlation when the increase of tests is a different age range than the age rage of the deaths that increased.
                  There is no correlation between testing and number of cases, fatalities, nor hospitalization.

                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                    There is no correlation between testing and number of cases, fatalities, nor hospitalization.
                    I agree with that point overall. I was point to the greater silliness of finding correlation of positive tests in 22-44 with deaths of people over 70.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      A researcher at Johns Hopkins discovered something rather curious: deaths attributed to the China flu have increased throughout 2020 at the exact same rate that deaths attributed to other causes have decreased...

                      “Surprisingly, the deaths of older people stayed the same before and after COVID-19. Since COVID-19 mainly affects the elderly, experts expected an increase in the percentage of deaths in older age groups. However, this increase is not seen from the CDC data. In fact, the percentages of deaths among all age groups remain relatively the same,” it read.

                      This is interesting for many reasons. There’s no question the virus can be deadly, but just how deadly is something we don’t know. You’d think we would by now, but we don’t. All we get reported to us are numbers, and numbers without context are meaningless. We’re told the “total number of cases in the US,” but this includes everyone who’s ever tested positive. That number dates back to March, and is over 13 million. But the vast majority of those people had it and got over it. There aren’t 13 million Americans infected right now. That would be a more useful number to know, would give the pandemic context, and help give people some perspective, which is likely [why] it's not reported. Can’t scare the hell out of people as easily with reality.

                      According to the Hopkins story, “not only has COVID-19 had no effect on the percentage of deaths of older people, but it has also not increased the total number of deaths.”

                      [...]

                      Shockingly, the story concluded this way:

                      "When Briand looked at the 2020 data during that seasonal period, COVID-19-related deaths exceeded deaths from heart diseases. This was highly unusual since heart disease has always prevailed as the leading cause of deaths. However, when taking a closer look at the death numbers, she noted something strange. As Briand compared the number of deaths per cause during that period in 2020 to 2018, she noticed that instead of the expected drastic increase across all causes, there was a significant decrease in deaths due to heart disease. Even more surprising...this sudden decline in deaths is observed for all other causes.

                      "This trend is completely contrary to the pattern observed in all previous years. Interestingly ... the total decrease in deaths by other causes almost exactly equals the increase in deaths by COVID-19. This suggests, according to Briand, that the COVID-19 death toll is misleading. Briand believes that deaths due to heart diseases, respiratory diseases, influenza and pneumonia may instead be recategorized as being due to COVID-19."

                      https://townhall.com/columnists/dere...llide-n2580829

                      Hmmm... is the China flu really worse than the common flu?


                      It's interesting that Hopkins published the study in November that said this...

                      The CDC classified all deaths that are related to COVID-19 simply as COVID-19 deaths. Even patients dying from other underlying diseases but are infected with COVID-19 count as COVID-19 deaths. This is likely the main explanation as to why COVID-19 deaths drastically increased while deaths b\ all other diseases experienced a significant decrease.
                      But then retracted it. It sure would be a claim that would disrupt the alarmism narrative of increasing covid death rates.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post

                        I agree with that point overall. I was point to the greater silliness of finding correlation of positive tests in 22-44 with deaths of people over 70.
                        The problem with the number of positive tests in the age group 22-44 is this age group is the least likely to follow the requirements of masks and social distancing, become seriously ill and die, and most likely spread it to the older population. I would put the age range fro something like 12-44.

                        Is there a statistical correlation?
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                          The problem with the number of positive tests in the age group 22-44 is this age group is the least likely to follow the requirements of masks and social distancing, become seriously ill and die, and most likely spread it to the older population. I would put the age range fro something like 12-44.

                          Is there a statistical correlation?
                          your attempt to add frivolity here has failed.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post

                            your attempt to add frivolity here has failed.
                            The question remains: Is there a correlation?
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                              The question remains: Is there a correlation?
                              As we see in the PCR test thread, the PCR tests among the public are estimated at 97% false positives in the US. We saw elsewhere that the PCR test in a specific hospital became less predictive of infectious states of people after something like 30 cycles.
                              Last edited by mikewhitney; 12-05-2020, 08:53 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                                I have never once dismissed a legitimate rebuttal. For the record, the typical liberal handwaves that you deliver are not legitimate rebuttals no matter how much you might think they are.
                                Now it's my turn to laugh.
                                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                                Comment

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