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  • Originally posted by EvoUK View Post
    What do you think will start to happen and/or be implemented regarding Covid were Biden to be elected? Obviously you'd have to wait until he's actually in place next year for anything substantive to happen, but it seems that given even something as basic as mask wearing is now politicised so I'm not sure what policies he can implement that will have a lasting effect? Granted, it won't be any worse, but Trump and his enablers already blown a year so what are you expecting will be put in place to turn the corner?
    The biggest difference I see is that the experts will have a louder voice, relative to the crackpots. How much good that will do is hard to say, given that so much damage has already been done.

    Perhaps there will be more help from the federal government with regard to things like testing and PPE.

    Comment


    • The virus is tightening its grip. This next wave is going to dwarf the first. This is economic Armageddon in slow motion.
      “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
      “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
      “not all there” - you know who you are

      Comment


      • I saw an interesting discussion article today noting that in the US it can take 2-3 months for deaths to be classified and added to the statistics. We had discussion a while back around whether cases or deaths was the better number to look at, so it seems the answer is that if you're looking at recent data, cases is the more accurate number because the recent deaths haven't been tallied yet.

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...us-death-toll/

        the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention clearly states: "Data during this period are incomplete because of the lag in time between when the death occurred and when the death certificate is completed. … This delay can range from 1 week to 8 weeks or more, depending on the jurisdiction and cause of death"

        [There have been a series of people making errors by misunderstanding that the recent-death data isn't yet fully counted]
        Trump Jr., as noted, isn’t the first to mangle these data. Fox News host Tucker Carlson tried to use lagging CDC data on pneumonia deaths early in the pandemic to suggest that they were perhaps being incorrectly coded as coronavirus deaths. The pneumonia numbers, as expected, soon spiked as they were reported. Fellow Fox prime-time host Laura Ingraham did the same thing by citing a report suggesting the CDC had suddenly chopped its coronavirus death toll in half. As Philip Bump noted later, the foolishness of that argument was soon proven by the actual data.
        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

        Comment


        • Completely agree that Bad Orange Man should consult experts. As soon as he's done campaigning, he should make his best effort to hire Drs. Harvey Risch, Stephen Smith, Michael Grace, and a bunch of signatories to the Great Barrington Declaration, and start pruning away some of the current members of the Task Force, starting with Fauci.
          Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

          Beige Federalist.

          Nationalist Christian.

          "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

          Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

          Proud member of the this space left blank community.

          Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

          Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

          Justice for Matthew Perna!

          Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
            Completely agree that Bad Orange Man should consult experts. As soon as he's done campaigning, he should make his best effort to hire Drs. Harvey Risch, Stephen Smith, Michael Grace, and a bunch of signatories to the Great Barrington Declaration, and start pruning away some of the current members of the Task Force, starting with Fauci.
            Pruning the experts whose knowledge and predictions are accurate and professional just mirrors his dishonest heartless shameful disrespectful and egregious attitude toward those that suffered and died from COVID-19 and the doctors who devote their lives to save victims when many become victims themselves.

            It is doubtful that Trump will consult statistic since he still ridicules the pandemic, doubts the numbers of fatalities and blames the doctors for propheteering on COVID-19 deaths.

            Source: https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-claims-doctors-get-more-money-from-covid-19-deaths?ref=home



            Trump Baselessly Claims Doctors ‘Get More Money’ From COVID-19 Deaths


            $2,000 PRICE TAG
            Allison Quinn


            News Editor

            ysicians “get more money” from coronavirus deaths. Speaking at a rally in Michigan, the president claimed, contrary to existing evidence, that doctors in the U.S. are fabricating causes of death amid the pandemic. “Our doctors get more money if someone dies from COVID. You know that, right?” Trump said. “So what they do is, they say, ‘I’m sorry, but, you know, everybody dies of Covid,’” he claimed. “But in Germany and other places, if you have a heart attack, or you have cancer, you’re terminally ill, you catch COVID, they say you died of cancer, you died of heart attack. With us, when in doubt, choose COVID.” He went on to bizarrely claim that doctors get “like $2,000 more” for coronavirus deaths, again citing no evidence.

            The president, who has made similar remarks about doctors recently and scoffed at the advice of infectious disease experts throughout the pandemic, was promptly reprimanded by the American Medical Association following his remarks on Friday. “Rather than attacking us and lobbing baseless charges at physicians, our leaders should be following the science and urging adherence to the public health steps we know work—wearing a mask, washing hands and practicing physical distancing,” AMA president Susan Bailey said.

            © Copyright Original Source

            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by EvoUK View Post

              What do you think will start to happen and/or be implemented regarding Covid were Biden to be elected? Obviously you'd have to wait until he's actually in place next year for anything substantive to happen, but it seems that given even something as basic as mask wearing is now politicised so I'm not sure what policies he can implement that will have a lasting effect? Granted, it won't be any worse, but Trump and his enablers already blown a year so what are you expecting will be put in place to turn the corner?
              It will be in reality very difficult, like trying to act after the fact with the disasterous Katrina and the lack of leadership from the George Bush.

              Leadership, leadership, and ah . . . leadership is the answer for the future hope for Biden to be elected.

              As with previous pandemics it is science that is control concerning the vaccines, remediation efforts and other possible cures. This was true in the pandemic under Obama, and others in the past. The difference is Obama immediately appealled to science and followed their leadership, and as far as I know made no claims Obama politicized the pandemic and claimed was responsible for developing vaccines and cures.
              Last edited by shunyadragon; 10-31-2020, 07:15 AM.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • Yes, Wendy Bell, a Pittsburgh-area media personage made that same slip about "doctors" getting paid more, and Mark Suckaturd censored her for her imprecision; hospitals really do get more for Covid deaths.

                The much-maligned Dr. Atlas does recommend wearing a mask -- when distancing is not possible, especially indoors.
                Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                Beige Federalist.

                Nationalist Christian.

                "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                Justice for Matthew Perna!

                Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                  The virus is tightening its grip. This next wave is going to dwarf the first. This is economic Armageddon in slow motion.
                  May I suggest Second Wave Death Grip. It sounds more dramatic.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                    I have not gotten to review the data. I do understand that flu and influenza deaths have gone to near zero. It is likely that these numbers simply were absorbed into the coronavirus category. So the charts have to be reassessed with that in mind.
                    Also, It is probably best to compare the coronavirus-related deaths to a year with maximum flu and influenza deaths rather than sort of an average of 5 year data.
                    Your assertions concerning the data on flu and influenza deaths is not correct, and further misrepresentation of the CDC artice.


                    That's great. You can tell me more about that someday. So you understand the failures of the coronavirus vaccine failures so far and how unlikely it is that they can make a vaccine successfully protecting people from catching or spreading the coronavirus. Hopefully the group that solves this will put out a paper explaining what unique concept they found for this.
                    I could possibly tell you anything, because first you have to do your home work on the actual science behind flus and COVID-19 and other viruses. When you post and correctly interpret scientific research and information then we can possibly communicate.

                    Vaccines vary in their effectiveness and ability to control the spread of the disease. Some offer nearly 100% effectiveness like measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, the vaccines for flus vary, but are effective in reducing the number of infections, due to the fact that flu viruses mutate continuously. It is at present unknown to the extent a vaccine or vaccines will be effective, but based on the present research it will be effective at least to a degree,
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Maranatha View Post

                      May I suggest Second Wave Death Grip. It sounds more dramatic.
                      I hear that the virus antibodies are detectable for only three months. Not so good for a let’s all get infected strategy.
                      “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                      “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                      “not all there” - you know who you are

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                        Your assertions concerning the data on flu and influenza deaths is not correct, and further misrepresentation of the CDC artice.




                        I could possibly tell you anything, because first you have to do your home work on the actual science behind flus and COVID-19 and other viruses. When you post and correctly interpret scientific research and information then we can possibly communicate.

                        Vaccines vary in their effectiveness and ability to control the spread of the disease. Some offer nearly 100% effectiveness like measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, the vaccines for flus vary, but are effective in reducing the number of infections, due to the fact that flu viruses mutate continuously. It is at present unknown to the extent a vaccine or vaccines will be effective, but based on the present research it will be effective at least to a degree,
                        I didn't figure you could say anything about flu and influenza or covid-19. You haven't shown anything yet on this topic. You always claim to emphasize the scientific research and information but we never see it coming in you responses.

                        The thing I understand on measles for example is that we have outbreaks of measles in places where there is 100% vaccination rates. The thing we have to remember is that if someone is confident in the vaccination process he/she should not have to worry about people who are unvaccinated. Only the unvaccinated should have to worry. But even then, chickenpox is better to encounter as a child since this creates resistance to shingles later on.

                        The thing I have heard so far is that the attempt to make one thus far has resulted in a cytokine storm among the test animals exposed to the wild virus. Also, I have heard that only some of the symptoms would be supressed by the vaccines in development; thus, these would not be helping on herd immunity -- it would maybe just help the person a tiny bit who is exposed to the virus.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post

                          I didn't figure you could say anything about flu and influenza or covid-19. You haven't shown anything yet on this topic. You always claim to emphasize the scientific research and information but we never see it coming in you responses.
                          The subject has been discussed and references in many threads, and you chose to ignore them and present misinformation.

                          The thing I understand on measles for example is that we have outbreaks of measles in places where there is 100% vaccination rates.
                          No we do not.

                          The thing we have to remember is that if someone is confident in the vaccination process he/she should not have to worry about people who are unvaccinated. Only the unvaccinated should have to worry. But even then, chickenpox is better to encounter as a child since this creates resistance to shingles later on.
                          Misinformation.

                          The thing I have heard so far is that the attempt to make one thus far has resulted in a cytokine storm among the test animals exposed to the wild virus. Also, I have heard that only some of the symptoms would be supressed by the vaccines in development; thus, these would not be helping on herd immunity -- it would maybe just help the person a tiny bit who is exposed to the virus.[/QUOTE]

                          I have heard? not a reliable reference.

                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                            The subject has been discussed and references in many threads, and you chose to ignore them and present misinformation.



                            No we do not.



                            Misinformation.

                            The thing I have heard so far is that the attempt to make one thus far has resulted in a cytokine storm among the test animals exposed to the wild virus. Also, I have heard that only some of the symptoms would be supressed by the vaccines in development; thus, these would not be helping on herd immunity -- it would maybe just help the person a tiny bit who is exposed to the virus.
                            I have heard? not a reliable reference.

                            [/QUOTE]

                            Your goofy hypocritical statements about sources of information. You always ask for scientific references but you provide meaningless mass media articles to defend your points.

                            I have provided research links on the susceptibility to influenza by those getting the flu shots. I forget what research articles you have shared on this. Oh. Now I remember. You shared none.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                              The thing we have to remember is that if someone is confident in the vaccination process he/she should not have to worry about people who are unvaccinated. Only the unvaccinated should have to worry.
                              This is based on a misunderstanding of how vaccines work. Most vaccines are not 100% effective. But even a vaccine that is 50% effective will, if taken by enough people, save the lives of many of those who are vaccinated, and many of those who are not vaccinated, even as some of those who are vaccinated still get the disease and die.

                              But even then, chickenpox is better to encounter as a child since this creates resistance to shingles later on.
                              You can only get shingles if you've already had chickenpox.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                                Yes, Wendy Bell, a Pittsburgh-area media personage made that same slip about "doctors" getting paid more, and Mark Suckaturd censored her for her imprecision; hospitals really do get more for Covid deaths.
                                Needs clarification, because the claim be Trump and others is they exaggerate the fatality figures, because they get paid more. First the hospitals do not get paid more regardless of how people die, ie COVID-19 or flu. Actually the longer people take to recover and get well keeps the hospitals full and they get more money.

                                The much-maligned Dr. Atlas does recommend wearing a mask -- when distancing is not possible, especially indoors.
                                Not true.

                                Source: https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/09/18/dr-scott-atlas-mask-wearing-ebof-vpx.cnn





                                White House coronavirus task force adviser Dr. Scott Atlas defends President Donald Trump's decision on wearing masks during his political rallies.

                                © Copyright Original Source



                                The video interview is revealing.
                                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                                Frank

                                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                                Comment

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