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  • #76
    First, it would help to put the coronavirus in context with the history of the flu.

    Source: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html



    2018-2019 Estimates

    Influenza activity in the United States during the 2018–2019 season began to increase in November and remained at high levels for several weeks during January–February5. Influenza A viruses were the predominant circulating viruses last year. While influenza A(H1N1pdm09) viruses predominated from October 2018 – mid February 2019, influenza A(H3N2) viruses were more commonly reported starting in late February 2019. Influenza B viruses were not commonly reported among circulating viruses during the 2018–2019 season. The season had moderate severity based on levels of outpatient influenza-like illness, hospitalizations rates, and proportions of pneumonia and influenza-associated deaths.

    CDC estimates that the burden of illness during the 2018–2019 season included an estimated 35.5 million people getting sick with influenza, 16.5 million people going to a health care provider for their illness, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths from influenza (Table 1). The number of influenza-associated illnesses that occurred last season was similar to the estimated number of influenza-associated illnesses during the 2012–2013 influenza season when an estimated 34 million people had symptomatic influenza illness6.

    Peak activity during the 2018–2019 influenza season was classified as having moderate severity across ages in the population. Compared with the 2017–2018 season , which was classified as high severity, the overall rates and burden of influenza were much lower during the 2018–2019 season (Table 2). Among children, however, rates of influenza during the 2018–2019 season were similar to the 2017–2018 season. In addition, the 2018–2019 season had two waves of activity, including a wave predominated by influenza A(H1N1)pdm09 viruses and another wave of similar magnitude attributable to influenza A(H3N2) viruses5. The dual waves resulted in a protracted season during 2018–2019 that was less severe when compared with peak activity in 2017–2018, but resulted in a similar burden of illness in children by the end of the season.

    During the 2018–2019 season, 136 deaths in children with laboratory–confirmed influenza virus infection were reported in the United States8. However, influenza-associated pediatric deaths are likely under-reported as not all children whose death was related to an influenza virus infection may have been tested for influenza9,10. By combining data on hospitalization rates, influenza testing practices, and the frequency of death in and out of the hospital from death certificates, we estimate that there were approximately 480 deaths associated with influenza in children during 2018–2019.

    Our estimates of hospitalizations and mortality associated with the 2018–2019 influenza season continue to demonstrate how serious influenza virus infection can be. We estimate, overall, there were 490,600 hospitalizations and 34,200 deaths during the 2018–2019 season. More than 46,000 hospitalizations occurred in children (aged <18 years); however, 57% of hospitalizations occurred in older adults aged ≥65 years. Older adults also accounted for 75% of influenza-associated deaths, highlighting that older adults are particularly vulnerable to severe outcomes resulting from an influenza virus infection. An estimated 8,100 deaths occurred among working age adults (aged 18–64 years), an age group that often has low influenza vaccination uptake11.

    Conclusion
    CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 35.5 million illnesses, more than 16.5 million medical visits, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths during the 2018–2019 influenza season. This burden was similar to estimated burden during the 2012–2013 influenza season 1.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Yes, we need to respond to control the coronavirus out break, but the efforts can be limited, because many if not most walk around without showing symptoms. It's history will be similar to flus and it will likely be with us like flu in cycles in the future. There will be more infected and more deaths worldwide including the USA. The facts are the current trends in death rate are lower than the flu in previous years, and nothing remotely close to the ~50,000,000 deaths in the 1917-1919 flu.

    The best we can do is develop the vaccine, use common sense measures to control the spread, and also reject the trend of Trump;s efforts in reducing the funding to the agencies responsible for controlling these diseases and increase their funding.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-01-2020, 05:48 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
      I didn't say he explicitly called it a hoax. What he did was to imply that the outbreak of the virus wasn't that serious and that the media and the democrats were politicising and hyping the issue by criticizing his pathetic handling of it. In other words he was calling the criticism of his administrations handling of it a hoax, which is tantamount to calling the seriousness of the coronavirus itself a hoax.

      "It's going to disappear, one day, it's like a miracle, it will disappear." He also said that there are 15 cases in the U.S, (actually there were 60 cases at the time) and that the 15 would soon be down to 3 or 4." He's either an idiot, or both an idiot and a lying con man.
      Sources, Jimmy. I'm not just going to take your word for it.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #78
        ACC Clinical Bulletin Cardiac Implications of Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19)

        As of February 28, there are 83,863 confirmed cases and 2,867 confirmed deaths across 61 countries; COVID-19 appears to have greater infectivity and a lower-case fatality rate when compared to SARS and MERS

        Although the overall mortality rate remains low, published reports from China may indicate elevated mortality risk for diabetics, hypertensives, patients with underlying cardiovascular disease, and the elderly

        • While the majority of COVID-19 cases remain in mainland China, sustained transmission in multiple countries increases the likelihood of a worldwide pandemic

        Early case reports suggest patients with underlying conditions are at higher risk for complications or mortality from COVID-19; up to 50% of hospitalized patients have a chronic medical illness, 80% of which are cardiovascular or cerebrovascular

        • In the most recent large-scale reporting from China CDC, 25% of patients with complete medical histories have comorbidities, the majority of which are cardiovascular- or diabetes-related; while lower than initial reports, 53% of all COVID-19 confirmed patients in the study were missing documentation of underlying conditions

        Overall the case mortality rate remains low at 2.3%; however, the mortality rate jumps to 6% in hypertensives, 7.3% in diabetics, 10.5% in patients with cardiovascular disease, and 14.8% for patients ≥ 80 years of age


        What a disgusting display of "hysteria" from the American College of Cardiology, right, Mountain Man? By the way, the average case fatality rate for the seasonal flu is .1%. Is 14% a bigger number than .1%? My hysteria is preventing me from grasping basic math.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Sources, Jimmy. I'm not just going to take your word for it.
          Nor should you be expected to MM but for some reason JimL being an arrogant fool thinks he's special and doesn't need to cite his sources.

          JimL you are not special CITE YOUR SOURCES or admit you or your leftist handlers whom you get your talking points from have made this out of whole cloth or we can go on knowing you are a dishonest fool who refuses to think for himself.

          Comment


          • #80
            Could the people who want to argue about American politics please take it to another thread?

            Could we keep this thread for information about the Covid 19 pandemic as it develops? Some of us are dealing with Covid infections in the actual places we live.


            I agree with Darfuis - it looks to be significantly more dangerous than the seasonal flu, especially if patients have other conditions. Levels of care available (especially if there are large numbers of infected people in one area) may also affect fatality rates.

            That said, I think there is a fair bit of over-reaction, maybe because of the extreme measures China adopted.
            ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Doofus View Post
              ACC Clinical Bulletin Cardiac Implications of Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19)

              As of February 28, there are 83,863 confirmed cases and 2,867 confirmed deaths across 61 countries; COVID-19 appears to have greater infectivity and a lower-case fatality rate when compared to SARS and MERS

              Although the overall mortality rate remains low, published reports from China may indicate elevated mortality risk for diabetics, hypertensives, patients with underlying cardiovascular disease, and the elderly

              • While the majority of COVID-19 cases remain in mainland China, sustained transmission in multiple countries increases the likelihood of a worldwide pandemic

              Early case reports suggest patients with underlying conditions are at higher risk for complications or mortality from COVID-19; up to 50% of hospitalized patients have a chronic medical illness, 80% of which are cardiovascular or cerebrovascular

              • In the most recent large-scale reporting from China CDC, 25% of patients with complete medical histories have comorbidities, the majority of which are cardiovascular- or diabetes-related; while lower than initial reports, 53% of all COVID-19 confirmed patients in the study were missing documentation of underlying conditions

              Overall the case mortality rate remains low at 2.3%; however, the mortality rate jumps to 6% in hypertensives, 7.3% in diabetics, 10.5% in patients with cardiovascular disease, and 14.8% for patients ≥ 80 years of age


              What a disgusting display of "hysteria" from the American College of Cardiology, right, Mountain Man? By the way, the average case fatality rate for the seasonal flu is .1%. Is 14% a bigger number than .1%? My hysteria is preventing me from grasping basic math.
              That's good information, soberly and professionally presented. Perhaps you should actually read it and comprehend instead of pulling a Chicken Little routine. It says right there that the mortality rate is "low at 2.3%". Remember, this is talking about worldwide. The .1% morality rate for the seasonal flu that you quoted is for just the US, so you're not comparing apples to apples. Also, older people and people in already poor health are at a higher risk, which is to be expected.

              To put things into perspective:

              So far, the new coronavirus, dubbed COVID-19, has led to more than 75,000 illnesses and 2,000 deaths, primarily in mainland China. But that's nothing compared with the flu, also called influenza. In the U.S. alone, the flu has already caused an estimated 26 million illnesses, 250,000 hospitalizations and 14,000 deaths this season, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

              https://www.livescience.com/new-coro...-with-flu.html

              Worldwide, nearly half-a-million people died from the flu in 2017.

              The primary concern at the moment seems to be that COVID-19 is a relative unknown, so unlike the common flu, doctors can't easily predict exactly how this is going to play out, but all indications are that it's really no worse than anything else we've dealt with recently.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                I agree with Darfuis - it looks to be significantly more dangerous than the seasonal flu, especially if patients have other conditions.
                Statistically, it's not. More information about the seasonal flu from the CDC:

                During the 2017-2018 season, the percentage of deaths attributed to pneumonia and influenza (P&I) was at or above the epidemic threshold for 16 consecutive weeks. During the past five seasons, the average number of weeks this indicator was above threshold was 11 (range of 7 to 15 weeks). Nationally, mortality attributed to P&I exceeded 10.0% for four consecutive weeks, peaking at 10.8% during the week ending January 20, 2018.

                https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season...-2017-2018.htm
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  Where did Trump say this?
                  “during his rally on Friday evening in South Carolina Trump referred to Democrats’ alleged efforts to politicize the Trump administration’s preparations for a possible outbreak here at home as “their new hoax.”

                  https://www.vox.com/2020/2/29/211592...na-first-death

                  And Don Jr:

                  " for them to try to take a pandemic and seemingly hope that it comes here, and kills millions of people so that they could end Donald Trump's streak of winning, is a new level of sickness. You know, I don't know if this is coronavirus or Trump derangement syndrome, but these people are infected badly.

                  https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/28/p...ats/index.html

                  And where did I agree with it?
                  My impression is that MM thinks Trump can do no wrong. Am I mistaken?
                  “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                    “during his rally on Friday evening in South Carolina Trump referred to Democrats’ alleged efforts to politicize the Trump administration’s preparations for a possible outbreak here at home as “their new hoax.”

                    https://www.vox.com/2020/2/29/211592...na-first-death
                    He seems to have got that from Limbaugh via Don Jr.

                    Limbaugh was busy telling his listeners it was all a democrat hoax, then within a couple of days there'd been the outbreak in the US and Trump had appointed Pence to head the taskforce, and then Limbaugh was interviewing Pence on how Pence was going to do great things to solve the problem with MAGAness.

                    I guess fortunately for Limbaugh his listeners are senile and can't remember anything from his show 2 days earlier.

                    In general the right-wing lunatics can't seem to make up their mind which conspiracy theory to hold... It's a Chinese Bioweapon. No, it's a Democratic hoax to defeat Trump. No, it's real and Trump/Pence will save us. No, it's an ineffective virus that's no worse than the common flu. The crazies can't seem to get their crazy straight. But I guess that's what I've come to expect from US right-wingers.
                    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                      “during his rally on Friday evening in South Carolina Trump referred to Democrats’ alleged efforts to politicize the Trump administration’s preparations for a possible outbreak here at home as “their new hoax.”

                      https://www.vox.com/2020/2/29/211592...na-first-death

                      And Don Jr:

                      " for them to try to take a pandemic and seemingly hope that it comes here, and kills millions of people so that they could end Donald Trump's streak of winning, is a new level of sickness. You know, I don't know if this is coronavirus or Trump derangement syndrome, but these people are infected badly.

                      https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/28/p...ats/index.html
                      Considering that we actually DO have elements among the MSM and the Democrats (sorry about the redundancy) seeking to blame Trump for the Coronavirus, and actually hoping it is bad so that it'll adversely affect Trump in the 2020 election...

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Considering that we actually DO have elements among the MSM and the Democrats (sorry about the redundancy) seeking to blame Trump for the Coronavirus, and actually hoping it is bad so that it'll adversely affect Trump in the 2020 election...
                        It is one thing to criticize Trump for the lack of preparedness and funding and the dismantling of teams of experts set in place by Obama. It's quite another thing to claim that Dems have been rooting for Americans to die en masse so Trump will lose office as a consequence. It's disturbing that Trump and his supporters can even think this.
                        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                          It is one thing to criticize Trump for the lack of preparedness and funding and the dismantling of teams of experts set in place by Obama. It's quite another thing to claim that Dems have been rooting for Americans to die en masse so Trump will lose office as a consequence. It's disturbing that Trump and his supporters can even think this.
                          hmmm

                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Considering that we actually DO have elements among the MSM and the Democrats (sorry about the redundancy) seeking to blame Trump for the Coronavirus, and actually hoping it is bad so that it'll adversely affect Trump in the 2020 election...
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          He seems to have got that from Limbaugh via Don Jr. ...................................

                          In general the right-wing lunatics can't seem to make up their mind which conspiracy theory to hold... It's a Chinese Bioweapon. No, it's a Democratic hoax to defeat Trump. No, it's real and Trump/Pence will save us. No, it's an ineffective virus that's no worse than the common flu. The crazies can't seem to get their crazy straight. But I guess that's what I've come to expect from US right-wingers.
                          Keep all those conspiracies close, so the appropriate one can be picked up and used. And then deny that anyone actually held those other views.

                          Doncha know the Dems want to destroy the US. Hey, the Dems want Trump to get in a war with the Iranians.....

                          The question is whether these (conspiracy) ideas are ideas formed from political views or formed from religious views.
                          Last edited by simplicio; 03-02-2020, 04:26 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            What he said was that the media and the democrats response to the issue was all a hoax to bring him down. He's implying that the outbreak isn't all that serious, that his administration is doing a great job and that the drop in the stock market is due to the media, and the democrats of course, or in other words, that it's all a hoax. Fact is the Administrations response has been pathetic. He cut the funding for the containment of such outbreaks in the first place, and then he placed no nothing loyalists in charge of health and disease control organizations. He said it'll go away, like a miracle, probably in April.
                            How many disease were supposed to have killed us all?
                            Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 03-02-2020, 06:14 AM.
                            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post
                              “during his rally on Friday evening in South Carolina Trump referred to Democrats’ alleged efforts to politicize the Trump administration’s preparations for a possible outbreak here at home as “their new hoax.”

                              https://www.vox.com/2020/2/29/211592...na-first-death
                              What you claimed:
                              Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post
                              As far as Trump is concerned, the coronavirus pandemic is all a devious plot to undermine him.
                              Your source does not support your claim.

                              Here's what Trump said in context (since VOX didn't bother to provide a complete quote):
                              "The Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus. One of my people came up to me and said ‘Mr. President they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia. That didn’t work out too well.’ They couldn’t do it. They tried the impeachment hoax that was on a perfect conversation. This is their new hoax."

                              So obviously, he's not saying the virus itself is a hoax but that the Democrats' attempt to politicize it and claim that his administration is unprepared or botching the response is the hoax. On the contrary, Trump is taking it very seriously:
                              "We are magnificently organized with the best professionals in the world. We have to take it very, very seriously ... We are preparing for the worst. My administration has taken the most aggressive action in modern history to prevent the spread of this illness in the United States. We are ready. We are ready. Totally ready."
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post
                                It is one thing to criticize Trump for the lack of preparedness and funding and the dismantling of teams of experts set in place by Obama. It's quite another thing to claim that Dems have been rooting for Americans to die en masse so Trump will lose office as a consequence. It's disturbing that Trump and his supporters can even think this.
                                Except the Democrats actually are trying to blame Trump, as I mentioned earlier in the thread:
                                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                Democrats are already ratcheting up their "Trump didn't do enough to stop the virus" narrative.

                                House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) on Wednesday accused the Trump administration of responding “too late” to halt the possible spread of China’s deadly coronavirus in the United States.

                                “This is shameful,” Pelosi told reporters on Capitol Hill when asked about the administration sending a $2.5 billion supplemental budget request to combat the illness. “He puts forth a proposal now that is meager, anemic in terms of addressing this. Ebola, we did $5 billion. And now they’re trying to take the Ebola money and spend it here.”

                                “What he’s doing is late, too late, anemic,” she added. “Hopefully, we can make up for the loss of time but we have to have professionals in place, resources that are adequate and not use scare tactics about people coming back to our country.”

                                https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...s-is-too-late/

                                So Trump isn't doing enough. But if he suggests closing the border, it's just a "scare tactic". Gotta love Democrat logic.
                                Then there's Shifty Adam Schiff:

                                Democratic Rep. Adam Schiff, who led the impeachment fight against President Trump, said Friday he has "profound concerns" about Trump's response to the coronavirus and cast doubt on whether the White House is telling the truth to the American public about the global outbreak.

                                "The president and vice president don’t inspire confidence," Schiff told Fox News as he left a coronavirus briefing at the Capitol Friday morning. "And because the president has made so many false statements about so many things, you can't really rely on the White House."

                                https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sch...olitical-fight

                                And the disreputable New York Times has attempted to coin the term "Trumpvirus" when talking about the illness, leaving little doubt who they want to take the fall if Trump can't perform miracles and stop the virus in its tracks.

                                So it's not an exaggeration that Democrats and liberals in general are morbidly hoping for a worst case scenario they can use against Trump. Heck, we've seen it in this forum with our resident liberals promulgating the false narrative that the White House has curtailed the CDC's ability to respond, a claim which was debunked by both Breitbart and the Associated Press.
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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