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  • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
    Source: https://www.wired.com/story/are-covid-patients-gasping-it-isnt-real-as-they-die/



    A DESPERATE, OUTRAGED Twitter thread from a South Dakota emergency room nurse went viral last weekend, landing its author a live interview on CNN. “When I read some of your tweets, my jaw dropped,” the host told Jodi Doering, referring to her account of gravely ill patients who “scream at you for a magic medicine and that Joe Biden is going to ruin the USA. All while gasping for breath.”

    “The reason I tweeted what I did is that it wasn’t one particular patient,” the nurse said. “It’s just a culmination of so many people, and their last, dying words are, ‘This can’t be happening, it’s not real.’ And when they should be spending time FaceTime-ing their families, they’re filled with anger and hatred, and it just made me really sad.”

    These were astonishing statements, and, not surprisingly, they captured the attention of millions. Multiple US senators and Pulitzer-prize-winning journalists were among the throngs who tweeted out the CNN interview, which was also written up by The Washington Post and other mainstream outlets. “This is the cost of disinformation,” wrote Atul Gawande, a New Yorker contributor and member of Joe Biden’s coronavirus task force. Senator Elizabeth Warren called it “heartbreaking.”

    There’s no doubt that we owe a deep debt of gratitude to Jodi Doering and all the frontline medical personnel dealing with the current surge in Covid cases. The work they do is truly heroic. Still, the manner in which Doering’s account of her experience has been reported and circulated should give people pause.

    Doering’s statement that she’s watched “so many” people die from the disease even as they deny its very existence, endlessly repeated on social media and presented by news outlets without corroboration, would seem to represent a broader phenomenon.

    But other nurses who work in similar settings say they’ve seen nothing of the kind.

    I called a number of hospitals in the same part of South Dakota to ask emergency room nurses if they’d noticed the same, disturbing phenomenon. At Avera Weskota Memorial Hospital, about 20 minutes from Doering’s hometown of Woonsocket, an ER nurse told me, “I have not had that experience here.” At my request, Kim Rieger, the VP for communications and marketing at Huron Regional Medical Center, one of the four medical facilities where Doering works, spoke with several nurses at Huron to get their reactions to the CNN interview. None said they’d interacted with Covid patients who denied having the disease. “Most patients are grateful, and thankful for our help,” one told her. “I have not experienced this, nor have I been told of this experience, ever,” another said.

    ...

    Perhaps it’s worth considering that Huron Regional Medical Center has seen a total of six Covid-19 deaths to date. Beadle County, where Huron is located, has registered a total of 22 such deaths, 13 of which occurred since August 1. And in Sanborn County, where Doering lives, there’s been one Covid-19 death. It’s certainly possible that the other facilities where Doering works have seen a higher number of fatalities; she may indeed have watched a great many patients die, as so many frontline workers have. But when all we have is one person’s story, it’s hard to know exactly what it means.

    In fact, this episode has some similarities to other weakly sourced accounts of Covid denialism in states that vote Republican. In July we heard reports of rampant “Covid parties.” One version of this story had college students in Tuscaloosa hosting parties with infected guests, and then betting on who else would catch the virus. Another took the form of a second-hand account from a nurse in San Antonio. A 30-year-old patient was said to have admitted just before he died that he’d gotten sick by going to a Covid party. “I thought it was a hoax,” he allegedly told the nurse, “but it’s not.”
    As WIRED’s Gilad Edelman reported at the time, none of these accounts held up to further scrutiny—yet each had been picked up from its original source and then amplified by larger publications that added little or no additional reporting. There’s good reason for these stories to be passed along, Edelman wrote. The hospital administrator who first went public with the story of the last-breath Covid-party confession is “trying desperately to get the American public to take the coronavirus seriously. If she hears a perfect cautionary tale, it isn’t necessarily her responsibility to investigate whether it’s too perfect before passing it along. It is, however, precisely the job of reporters.”

    © Copyright Original Source

    That social media delusion is strong.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

    Comment


    • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

      In Indiana I follow the # of daily deaths. It is, in my opinion, the "cleanest" of the metrics used. Positivity rate is skewed due to who is/was being tested. Cases are skewed based on # of tests conducted. Deaths while there is argument about what should/should not count, seems to be a fairly consistently measured metric, which makes the #'s comparable across time, but not necessarily across states.

      Indiana, by the way, isn't doing so hot. We are at/past the peak from earlier in the year.

      https://www.coronavirus.in.gov/2393.htm
      More significant is possibly the increased number of deaths per week. Indiana as basically around 1200-1300 or 178 per day.

      This year has seen an increase of deaths by 10%. This is about 5000 more this year.


      The chart which shows an average of say 40 per day in November. However, the total covid-probable deaths are shown as 254. I'm not sure what accounts for the other greater number of deaths -- it might be interesting to find out.

      IndianaDeathsByDay.png

      So, I have not pinpointed anything about Indiana but only see the covid-related deaths as a small proportion of the increased deaths-per-week.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post

        More significant is possibly the increased number of deaths per week. Indiana as basically around 1200-1300 or 178 per day.

        This year has seen an increase of deaths by 10%. This is about 5000 more this year.


        The chart which shows an average of say 40 per day in November. However, the total covid-probable deaths are shown as 254. I'm not sure what accounts for the other greater number of deaths -- it might be interesting to find out.

        IndianaDeathsByDay.png

        So, I have not pinpointed anything about Indiana but only see the covid-related deaths as a small proportion of the increased deaths-per-week.
        There were over 2,000 COVID-19 deaths today for the second time in ten days.
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

          There were over 2,000 COVID-19 deaths today for the second time in ten days.
          That's a lot for Indiana.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post

            That's a lot for Indiana.
            The USA, Indiana is not a hot state at present concerning fatalities and cases.
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post

              More significant is possibly the increased number of deaths per week. Indiana as basically around 1200-1300 or 178 per day.

              This year has seen an increase of deaths by 10%. This is about 5000 more this year.


              The chart which shows an average of say 40 per day in November. However, the total covid-probable deaths are shown as 254. I'm not sure what accounts for the other greater number of deaths -- it might be interesting to find out.

              IndianaDeathsByDay.png

              So, I have not pinpointed anything about Indiana but only see the covid-related deaths as a small proportion of the increased deaths-per-week.
              That's 4952 deaths that were definitely due to covid-19, about 40 per day of those in November, plus 254 deaths that were probably due to covid-19.

              And you will notice that the number of deaths per day is rising pretty rapidly, suggesting that Indiana isn't doing enough at the moment to slow the transmission of the disease.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                That's 4952 deaths that were definitely due to covid-19, about 40 per day of those in November, plus 254 deaths that were probably due to covid-19.

                And you will notice that the number of deaths per day is rising pretty rapidly, suggesting that Indiana isn't doing enough at the moment to slow the transmission of the disease.
                Indiana is not even one of the worst states states,
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                  ​ Here's the chat I created from the data from 2 weeks ago. The last week might be low due to the 5 day latitude in reporting deaths in SD.

                  SD Covid Chart to end of oct 2020.png
                  The highest point is about the first week of Sept. Generally the 2020 data (red line) is riding pretty close to the 2019 data (blue line).

                  This type of results has been common for headlines that promoted fear in the last six months that has contradicted the actual data.​

                  The data comes from https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Weekly-Cou...uses/muzy-jte6

                  I got an excel or csv download and had to rearrange the data for convenient graphing.
                  Here's a version with the latest data. It looks pretty clear to me that most of September and October had an above normal number of deaths.
                  Find my speling strange? I'm trying this out: Simplified Speling. Feel free to join me.

                  "Nature has placed mankind under the governance of two sovereign masters, pain and pleasure. It is for them alone to point out what we ought to do, as well as to determine what we shall do."-Jeremy Bentham

                  "We question all our beliefs, except for the ones that we really believe in, and those we never think to question."-Orson Scott Card

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by stfoskey15 View Post

                    Here's a version with the latest data. It looks pretty clear to me that most of September and October had an above normal number of deaths.
                    hmm. that looks like what I shared. Must be a coincidence. What were you going to say about this chart?

                    The thing I was pointing out was that if this is the hot spot in nation it is a good sign since that means more populated states are way low.
                    Last edited by mikewhitney; 11-21-2020, 08:56 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post

                      hmm. that looks like what I shared. Must be a coincidence. What were you going to say about this chart?

                      The thing I was pointing out was that if this is the hot spot in nation it is a good sign since that means more populated states are way low.
                      It is good to see someone else examining the data.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post

                        hmm. that looks like what I shared. Must be a coincidence. What were you going to say about this chart?

                        The thing I was pointing out was that if this is the hot spot in nation it is a good sign since that means more populated states are way low.
                        I had thought you were saying there was no significant difference at all. My bad for misunderstanding.
                        Find my speling strange? I'm trying this out: Simplified Speling. Feel free to join me.

                        "Nature has placed mankind under the governance of two sovereign masters, pain and pleasure. It is for them alone to point out what we ought to do, as well as to determine what we shall do."-Jeremy Bentham

                        "We question all our beliefs, except for the ones that we really believe in, and those we never think to question."-Orson Scott Card

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                          That's 4952 deaths that were definitely due to covid-19, about 40 per day of those in November, plus 254 deaths that were probably due to covid-19.

                          And you will notice that the number of deaths per day is rising pretty rapidly, suggesting that Indiana isn't doing enough at the moment to slow the transmission of the disease.
                          If you have not noticed the graph mikewhiney cited has nothing to do with what he claimed.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            [...]

                            Is the coronavirus really any worse than the common flu?
                            Do you think this post has aged well, Mountain Man?
                            "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post

                              hmm. that looks like what I shared. Must be a coincidence. What were you going to say about this chart?

                              The thing I was pointing out was that if this is the hot spot in nation it is a good sign since that means more populated states are way low.
                              North Dakota definitely has an elevated fatality rate for 2020, which roughly matches the COVID19 fatalities.

                              As far as more populated state absolutely no. This is a national/world pandemic, and citing limited data on states that have low rates Indiana and misrepresenting it does not address the seriousness of the pandemic.

                              For example:

                              Source: https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/one-death-every-minute-covid-hospitalizations-rising-in-texas-as-thanksgiving-week-begins/285-bbad5737-c8a1-421f-9339-ca96714bf3f7



                              One death every minute: COVID-19 hospitalizations rising in Texas as Thanksgiving week begins

                              In the Houston region, 1,392 people are hospitalized with COVID-19. That's the highest number since Aug. 25.

                              HOUSTON — As Thanksgiving week begins, one person is dying of COVID-19 every minute in the United States. It's a sobering statistic fueled by increased hospitalizations, many of them in Texas.

                              "Things are getting not only worse, they're getting scary in the western part of the state," said infectious disease expert Dr. Peter Hotez.


                              In El Paso, the National Guard has been deployed to the morgue to help with a rising body count. Inmates are helping, too. Numbers are also dangerously high in Lubbock.

                              RELATED: Texas inmates hired by El Paso morgue that is overwhelmed by COVID-19 deaths

                              In the Houston region, 1,392 people hospitalized with COVID-19. That's the highest since August 25th.

                              "This is getting really worrisome because we're seeing surges on ICU's, that's always the sign of really bad trouble," said Hotez.

                              Gov. Greg Abbott says no new lockdowns are coming, but under the rules, if a region sees 15% of its hospitalizations are COVID patients for seven straight days, things like bars must close and restaurant capacity would drop back down to 50%.

                              Right now the Houston region sits at 11.8%.


                              "The numbers look terrible in Texas," said Hotez.

                              Fifty million people are estimated to travel for Thanksgiving and that could worsen an already worsening pandemic. Hotez and the CDC are urging folks to stay home this year to keep those we love alive.

                              "The idea is to not travel this Thanksgiving, so you can have dozens of Thanksgivings to come together," said Hotez.

                              But folks aren't listening. The TSA screened more than 2 million travelers this weekend, the most since March. That means COVID-19 cases will undoubtedly climb even faster.

                              "We're clearly already heading to 200,000 new cases a day which means three or four times that," said Hotez.

                              If trends continue, experts say the deaths will follow. And with vaccines closer by the day, they're pleading with people to not be reckless and hold on a little longer.

                              "Help is on the way, so it's just a matter of keeping everybody alive for the next three months," said Hotez.

                              © Copyright Original Source



                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post

                                They are not.

                                Here's the obvious data I have been talking about. In the OC, the number of cases is proportional to the number of tests

                                CalifOC Cases v Tests Nov 20.png

                                the blue line is average daily positive covid PCR tests and the red is average daily covid PCR tests done. (I get the daily data and then sum it and divide by 7. This is easier to see on the chart)
                                The x-axis represents the weeks starting with Jan 22. (If you add 3 to these then you have the week of the year.)

                                Also, the daily PCR tests are divided by 10 to fit the chart better. So for the OC, 223 positive outcomes (whether sick or not) per day is enough to put us to severe lockdown conditions. However, these numbers simply follow as a percentage of number of tests done.

                                A better (but still pretty useless) gauge is percent of cases per number of tests

                                CalifOC cases as pct of Tests Nov 20.png
                                we see here that the original percent is high because the tests were done more based on people that were hospitalized. This point is based on common sense and just general awareness of how things have been handled.

                                The peak is around June and early July.

                                If we are going to use useless PCR test numbers, at least the govt decisions should be based on the percent of positives rather than the number of positives.
                                I have always negated any argument concerning number of cases and test in justifying the pandemic for many reasons. I go with hospitalizations and fatalities due to COVID-19 for the measure of the pandemic, and we are in the worst part of the pandemic since it began.
                                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                                Frank

                                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                                Comment

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