Coronavirus Outbreak...

[Maranatha]

No, I'm on record elsewhere as saying that Joe isn't likely to do much better than Trump would, because so much damage will have already been done.

I don't want Trump out mainly because of this catastrophe, but because of potential future catastrophes.

Joe would have done far worse.

[Stoic]

Joe would have done far worse.

I'm not really sure that's possible.

[oxmixmudd]

Joe would have done far worse.

very unlikely anyone could match the destruction and death created by a person willing to ignore all medical advice and who has spent the entire campaign putting large crowds of people in needless danger and lying to millions of others about what the danger is so that he could feed his insatiable appetite for praise and adulation.

[Electric Skeptic]

Joe would have done far worse.

I don't see how anybody could. He started out by (admittedly) lying to America about the virus and how dangerous it was, continued by ignoring all medical advice, kept going strongly by recommending untested remedies, persisted in violating virtually every protocol urged by those with actual qualifications in the relevant areas (endangering thousands), pushed on further by not just ignoring but disparaging medical authorities and is now engaged in lying about us having turned the corner. What could he possibly have done worse?

[shunyadragon]

The conservative rural world is being slammed by COVID-19 and the Dakota's are shinning examples of how this is accomplished. Trump's gift of no masks and social distancing.

Source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/11/14/covid-19-north-south-dakota-masks-kristi-noem/6237635002/

The Dakotas are 'as bad as it gets anywhere in the world' for COVID-19

Joel Shannon


South Dakota welcomed hundreds of thousands of visitors to a massive motorcycle rally this summer, declined to cancel the state fair and still doesn't require masks. Now its hospitals are filling up and the state's current COVID-19 death rate is among the worst in the world.

The situation is similarly dire in North Dakota, with the state's governor recently moving to allow health care workers who have tested positive for COVID-19 to continue working if they don't show symptoms. It's a controversial policy recommended by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in a crisis situation where hospitals are short-staffed.

And now — after months of resisting a statewide mask mandate — North Dakota Gov. Doug Burgum changed course late Friday, ordering masks to be worn statewide and imposing several business restrictions.


“Our situation has changed, and we must change with it,” Burgum said in a video message posted at 10 p.m. Friday. Doctors and nurses “need our help, and they need it now,” he said.

Both North and South Dakota now face a predictably tragic reality that health experts tell USA TODAY could have been largely prevented with earlier public health actions.

Pandemics require people to give up some of their freedoms for the greater good, University of British Columbia psychiatry professor Steven Taylor told USA TODAY. In conservative regions like the Dakotas and elsewhere in the world, it's common to see push back like an “allergic reaction to being told what to do,” said Taylor, author of "The Psychology of Pandemics".

But months of lax regulations have contributed to a growing public health crisis in the Dakotas.
How widespread is COVID-19 across North and South Dakota?


The current rates of infection and deaths per capita in South Dakota and previously restriction-free North Dakota are what Dr. Ali Mokdad would expect to see in a war-torn nation — not here.

“How could we allow this in the United States to happen?" asked Mokdad, a professor at the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington in Seattle. “This is unacceptable by any standards.”

North Dakota's COVID-19 death rates per capita in the past week are similar to the hardest hit countries in the world right now — Belgium, Czech Republic and Slovenia — according to Saturday New York Times data. That data also places South Dakota's recent per capita deaths among the world's highest rates.

And there's currently nowhere in the U.S. where COVID-19 deaths are more common than in the Dakotas, according to data published by The COVID Tracking Project.

It's a situation “as bad as it gets anywhere in the world," Dr. William Haseltine told USA TODAY.
How did it get so bad?

© Copyright Original Source

[Stoic]

The conservative rural world is being slammed by COVID-19 and the Dakota's are shinning examples of how this is accomplished. Trump's gift of no masks and social distancing.

Source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/11/14/covid-19-north-south-dakota-masks-kristi-noem/6237635002/

The Dakotas are 'as bad as it gets anywhere in the world' for COVID-19

Joel Shannon


South Dakota welcomed hundreds of thousands of visitors to a massive motorcycle rally this summer, declined to cancel the state fair and still doesn't require masks. Now its hospitals are filling up and the state's current COVID-19 death rate is among the worst in the world.

The situation is similarly dire in North Dakota, with the state's governor recently moving to allow health care workers who have tested positive for COVID-19 to continue working if they don't show symptoms. It's a controversial policy recommended by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in a crisis situation where hospitals are short-staffed.

And now — after months of resisting a statewide mask mandate — North Dakota Gov. Doug Burgum changed course late Friday, ordering masks to be worn statewide and imposing several business restrictions.


“Our situation has changed, and we must change with it,” Burgum said in a video message posted at 10 p.m. Friday. Doctors and nurses “need our help, and they need it now,” he said.

Both North and South Dakota now face a predictably tragic reality that health experts tell USA TODAY could have been largely prevented with earlier public health actions.

Pandemics require people to give up some of their freedoms for the greater good, University of British Columbia psychiatry professor Steven Taylor told USA TODAY. In conservative regions like the Dakotas and elsewhere in the world, it's common to see push back like an “allergic reaction to being told what to do,” said Taylor, author of "The Psychology of Pandemics".

But months of lax regulations have contributed to a growing public health crisis in the Dakotas.
How widespread is COVID-19 across North and South Dakota?


The current rates of infection and deaths per capita in South Dakota and previously restriction-free North Dakota are what Dr. Ali Mokdad would expect to see in a war-torn nation — not here.

“How could we allow this in the United States to happen?" asked Mokdad, a professor at the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington in Seattle. “This is unacceptable by any standards.”

North Dakota's COVID-19 death rates per capita in the past week are similar to the hardest hit countries in the world right now — Belgium, Czech Republic and Slovenia — according to Saturday New York Times data. That data also places South Dakota's recent per capita deaths among the world's highest rates.

And there's currently nowhere in the U.S. where COVID-19 deaths are more common than in the Dakotas, according to data published by The COVID Tracking Project.

It's a situation “as bad as it gets anywhere in the world," Dr. William Haseltine told USA TODAY.
How did it get so bad?

© Copyright Original Source

"Pandemics require people to give up some of their freedoms for the greater good"

I think that might be the problem. A lot of conservatives think there is no greater good than "being able to do whatever I want".

[shunyadragon]

"Pandemics require people to give up some of their freedoms for the greater good"

I think that might be the problem. A lot of conservatives think there is no greater good than "being able to do whatever I want".

Conservative eugenics. Thinning the herd before the vaccines are available.

[shunyadragon]

Source: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/dr-scott-atlas-fire-telling-michigan-rise-covid/story?id=74234276

Dr. Scott Atlas under fire for telling Michigan to 'rise up' against COVID-19 restrictions

Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer called his comment "incredibly reckless."

By Libby Cathey

Dr. Scott Atlas, a controversial member of President Donald Trump's coronavirus task force, is facing heavy criticism after telling Michiganders to "rise up" against Gov. Gretchen Whitmer's new COVID-19 restrictions imposed as new cases surge in the state.

Whitmer has denounced Atlas' call to action, in a call with Michigan Capitol reporters Monday morning, slamming it as "incredibly reckless, considering everything that has happened, everything that is going on."

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top expert on infectious diseases, told NBC's "Today" program Monday he "totally disagrees" with Atlas, and Dr. Ashish Jha, the dean of Brown University's School of Public Health, called the comment "particularly irresponsible," noting the death threats officials say Whitmer has faced.

"He is supposedly a physician and a disgrace to our profession," Jha said in a tweet Sunday night.
MORE: President Trump's split with health advisers on coronavirus fuels speculation of shake-up
Whitmer, a Democrat who has come under frequent fire from Trump, detailed a new order Sunday to help slow the spread of the virus as the country enters a new wave resembling its peak in April.

In response to the rising number of cases, starting Wednesday for three weeks, Michigan will suspend in-person instruction at high schools and colleges, halt indoor dining at restaurants and close some businesses, including movie theaters and casinos.



Shortly after the announcement, Atlas, a neuroradiologist with no training in infectious diseases who joined the White House coronavirus task force in August and has since railed against COVID-19 restrictions, tweeted, "The only way this stops is if people rise up. You get what you accept. #FreedomMatters #StepUp."

The language echoed Trump's previous calls to "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!"
MORE: Coronavirus government response updates: 'LIBERATE': Trump backs protesters defying stay-at-home orders
About three hours after the original tweet, Atlas attempted to walk back his comment as the criticism poured in, saying he wasn't talking about violence but raised people peacefully protesting and voting.

© Copyright Original Source

Urging people to 'rise up' equivalent to voting?!?!? No voting until 2022..

[Stoic]

Source: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/dr-scott-atlas-fire-telling-michigan-rise-covid/story?id=74234276

Dr. Scott Atlas under fire for telling Michigan to 'rise up' against COVID-19 restrictions

Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer called his comment "incredibly reckless."

By Libby Cathey

Dr. Scott Atlas, a controversial member of President Donald Trump's coronavirus task force, is facing heavy criticism after telling Michiganders to "rise up" against Gov. Gretchen Whitmer's new COVID-19 restrictions imposed as new cases surge in the state.

Whitmer has denounced Atlas' call to action, in a call with Michigan Capitol reporters Monday morning, slamming it as "incredibly reckless, considering everything that has happened, everything that is going on."

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top expert on infectious diseases, told NBC's "Today" program Monday he "totally disagrees" with Atlas, and Dr. Ashish Jha, the dean of Brown University's School of Public Health, called the comment "particularly irresponsible," noting the death threats officials say Whitmer has faced.

"He is supposedly a physician and a disgrace to our profession," Jha said in a tweet Sunday night.
MORE: President Trump's split with health advisers on coronavirus fuels speculation of shake-up
Whitmer, a Democrat who has come under frequent fire from Trump, detailed a new order Sunday to help slow the spread of the virus as the country enters a new wave resembling its peak in April.

In response to the rising number of cases, starting Wednesday for three weeks, Michigan will suspend in-person instruction at high schools and colleges, halt indoor dining at restaurants and close some businesses, including movie theaters and casinos.



Shortly after the announcement, Atlas, a neuroradiologist with no training in infectious diseases who joined the White House coronavirus task force in August and has since railed against COVID-19 restrictions, tweeted, "The only way this stops is if people rise up. You get what you accept. #FreedomMatters #StepUp."

The language echoed Trump's previous calls to "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!"
MORE: Coronavirus government response updates: 'LIBERATE': Trump backs protesters defying stay-at-home orders
About three hours after the original tweet, Atlas attempted to walk back his comment as the criticism poured in, saying he wasn't talking about violence but raised people peacefully protesting and voting.

© Copyright Original Source

Urging people to 'rise up' equivalent to voting?!?!? No voting until 2022..

The way to gain status in a cult is to say or do something for which the people outside of the cult will never forgive you.

[shunyadragon]

Human tragedy compounded by the devotion to misinformation and lack of leadership from above.

Source: https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/526204-south-dakota-nurse-says-many-dying-patients-still-insist-covid-19-not

South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist COVID-19 'not real'

BY ALICIA COHN

A South Dakota emergency room nurse on Monday expressed frustration that many of her patients don't believe they are dying of COVID-19.

Jodi Doering's tweet went viral on social media over the weekend after she tweeted about patients who "don’t believe the virus is real ... while gasping for breath on 100% Vapotherm."

"It wasn't one particular patient, it's just a culmination of so many people," Doering told CNN's "New Day." "And their last, dying words are, ‘This can’t be happening. It’s not real.’ "

South Dakota nurse says many dying patients still insist COVID-19 'not real'

A South Dakota emergency room nurse on Monday expressed frustration that many of her patients don't believe they are dying of COVID-19.

Jodi Doering's tweet went viral on social media over the weekend after she tweeted about patients who "don’t believe the virus is real ... while gasping for breath on 100% Vapotherm."

"It wasn't one particular patient, it's just a culmination of so many people," Doering told CNN's "New Day." "And their last, dying words are, ‘This can’t be happening. It’s not real.’ "

South Dakota reported 821 new cases of COVID-19 on Monday, with 62,521 current confirmed cases statewide. The state health department reports 20 percent of hospital beds are currently occupied with COVID-19 patients.

"People want it to be influenza, they want it to be pneumonia," Doering said. "We've even had people say, 'You know, I think it might be lung cancer.' ... Even after positive results come back, some people just don't believe it."

Doering said multiple patients target nurses like her with their "anger and hatred."

"They call you names and ask why you have to wear all that 'stuff' because they don’t have COVID because it’s not real," she tweeted on Saturday.

"I think it's just a belief that it's not real and nursing happens to be on the receiving end of that," she told CNN.

"It just makes you sad and mad and frustrated and then you know that you're just going to come back and do it all over again," she added.

Doering also noted on Twitter that some patients argue with her that President-elect Joe Biden "is going to ruin the USA."
Biden has indicated that as president he will ask governors and mayors to institute mask mandates, in keeping with CDC recommendations for preventing the spread of the coronavirus.

South Dakota's Republican Gov. Kristi Noem did not issue a statewide lockdown order earlier this year, unlike most other states, and continues to criticize statewide mask mandates.

"It's a good day for freedom. Joe Biden realizes that the president doesn't have the authority to institute a mask mandate," Ian Fury, communications specialist for Noem, told South Dakota's The Argus Leader on Friday. "For that matter, neither does Governor Noem, which is why she has provided her citizens with the full scope of the science and trusted them to make the best decisions for themselves and their loved-ones."

© Copyright Original Source

[shunyadragon]

I didn't figure you could say anything about flu and influenza or covid-19. You haven't shown anything yet on this topic. You always claim to emphasize the scientific research and information but we never see it coming in you responses.

The thing I understand on measles for example is that we have outbreaks of measles in places where there is 100% vaccination rates. The thing we have to remember is that if someone is confident in the vaccination process he/she should not have to worry about people who are unvaccinated. Only the unvaccinated should have to worry. But even then, chickenpox is better to encounter as a child since this creates resistance to shingles later on.

The thing I have heard so far is that the attempt to make one thus far has resulted in a cytokine storm among the test animals exposed to the wild virus. Also, I have heard that only some of the symptoms would be suppressed by the vaccines in development; thus, these would not be helping on herd immunity -- it would maybe just help the person a tiny bit who is exposed to the virus.

I would like to hear from you concerning the last two posts on the Dakotas. Human tragedy compounded by the devotion to misinformation and lack of leadership from the administration..

[mikewhitney]

I would like to hear from you concerning the last two posts on the Dakotas. Human tragedy compounded by the devotion to misinformation and lack of leadership from the administration..

Maybe they are not being treated properly because the medical system is pigeon holing everything into coronavirus. But I appreciate you sharing anecdotal news, this confirms that you are not able to find scientific studies.

There may be a real virus or other disease going around. The thing we know is that the case counts are useless since we cannot tell if the novel coronavirus is the cause of the problems nor does the popular PCR test offer worthwhile results whether someone even has this specific virus. The PCR test cannot tell if some has fragments of it, an ineffective amount, or an amount that might cause sickness. The PCR test should not go through more than 30-35 cycles and should only be used within 3-5 days (if memory serves) after acquiring this.

The most obvious thing to notice is that deaths do not follow proportionately the number of cases. So you were wrong on that.


Here's some numbers of normal deaths per year in South Dakota


In South Dakota we have a 884,659 population.

There are about 618 deaths attributed to covid-19. Say this is from april to nov 7 0.07 % of population ... even if it is a short period, it is not shown to far exceed normal death rates

We can find the deaths per year here:
Flu Deaths in 2016-7 season
https://doh.sd.gov/documents/disease...FluSummary.pdf

This seems to show 43 deaths. However, we know that many comorbidities have accompanied most deaths, so that we cannot assume these are caused or enhanced by covid-19

We see the "normal" deaths per year at 7,971 (2018) but do not have any increased rate of deaths available on this site: https://doh.sd.gov/statistics/2018Vital/Mortality.pdf

We don't have any big trend happening. The rate shown on the corona tracking is 17.3 or 17.4 per million for two separate weeks. This is 15 deaths per week. We could hope that this is the worst situation in the world since these rates are so very low.

The South Dakota rates then are very good news since they represent the high end. And these number tend to include the deaths with comorbidities.

Thanks Shuny for sharing this encouraging info.

[mikewhitney]

The conservative rural world is being slammed by COVID-19 and the Dakota's are shinning examples of how this is accomplished. Trump's gift of no masks and social distancing.

Source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/11/14/covid-19-north-south-dakota-masks-kristi-noem/6237635002/

The Dakotas are 'as bad as it gets anywhere in the world' for COVID-19


. . .

The current rates of infection and deaths per capita in South Dakota and previously restriction-free North Dakota are what Dr. Ali Mokdad would expect to see in a war-torn nation — not here.
. . .
It's a situation “as bad as it gets anywhere in the world," Dr. William Haseltine told USA TODAY.
How did it get so bad?

© Copyright Original Source

Just to be sure. The title and the deaths per capita show rates well below any pandemic level. The deaths per capita remain statistically too low to represent any obvious threat from the novel coronavirus. Plus, as mentioned earlier, the deaths with comorbidities often are identified as covid-19-related.

The SD site does list 644 deaths for 62521 positive tests. This would be 1% of that. However, we don't know when and who they have tested. If you just test people seriously ill, then this is a low number. If lots of young people just are curious about their status while older people only get it when in the hospital, the numbers of deaths have little relationship to the young people's positive results -- if even you give any significance to PCR tests being done.

[Stoic]

Maybe they are not being treated properly because the medical system is pigeon holing everything into coronavirus. But I appreciate you sharing anecdotal news, this confirms that you are not able to find scientific studies.

There may be a real virus or other disease going around. The thing we know is that the case counts are useless since we cannot tell if the novel coronavirus is the cause of the problems nor does the popular PCR test offer worthwhile results whether someone even has this specific virus. The PCR test cannot tell if some has fragments of it, an ineffective amount, or an amount that might cause sickness. The PCR test should not go through more than 30-35 cycles and should only be used within 3-5 days (if memory serves) after acquiring this.

The most obvious thing to notice is that deaths do not follow proportionately the number of cases. So you were wrong on that.


Here's some numbers of normal deaths per year in South Dakota


In South Dakota we have a 884,659 population.

There are about 618 deaths attributed to covid-19. Say this is from april to nov 7 0.07 % of population ... even if it is a short period, it is not shown to far exceed normal death rates

We can find the deaths per year here:
Flu Deaths in 2016-7 season
https://doh.sd.gov/documents/disease...FluSummary.pdf

This seems to show 43 deaths. However, we know that many comorbidities have accompanied most deaths, so that we cannot assume these are caused or enhanced by covid-19

We see the "normal" deaths per year at 7,971 (2018) but do not have any increased rate of deaths available on this site: https://doh.sd.gov/statistics/2018Vital/Mortality.pdf

We don't have any big trend happening. The rate shown on the corona tracking is 17.3 or 17.4 per million for two separate weeks. This is 15 deaths per week. We could hope that this is the worst situation in the world since these rates are so very low.

The South Dakota rates then are very good news since they represent the high end. And these number tend to include the deaths with comorbidities.

Thanks Shuny for sharing this encouraging info.

You should double check your numbers. I've got 206 deaths in the 2 weeks from November 3 through November 16, which is not very encouraging. (It appears your 15 deaths per week is really 15 deaths per day.)

[mikewhitney]

You should double check your numbers. I've got 206 deaths in the 2 weeks from November 3 through November 16, which is not very encouraging. (It appears your 15 deaths per week is really 15 deaths per day.)

You'll have to chat with the South Dakota and the coronavirus site statistical people on that one. We'll see if they sort out the numbers in the next month or so.

You are right. Thanks. They are stating that the line represents a weekly average but it actually seems to be following the daily number with. https://covidtracking.com/data/chart...llion-by-state

I suspect they were trying to set up a line to represent the weekly average but goofed.

Typically, if we can say that, they would have 153 deaths (8000/52) per week. This then is roughly like 2/3rds of the deaths are attributed to coronavirus or that the people were corona-positive (by symptoms or by testing).

This low number in such a narrow area is still encouraging. I also saw that California never reached a significant percentage of deaths due to coronavirus.