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  • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post

    I wish you could understand things a bit easier. Most doctors rely on publications and policies that surround them. Doctors have to spend too much time on paperwork and other management activities, so they are not proactive in researching the details of the virus. The situation is like all of us where we just accept what the surrounding cultural information. Plus, it is easiest to just follow the common assumptions and practices in the doctors offices and hospitals.
    If it wasn't so serious I'd take you as merely entertaining, or enjoy the challenge of putting together an objective rebuttal that clearly showed your ignorance as I used to do with John Martin. But this is not some loon that harmlessly sits in a corner with his 5 other friends and advocates for the idea the universe revolves around planet earth, The idiocy you promote is killing people.
    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

      If it wasn't so serious I'd take you as merely entertaining, or enjoy the challenge of putting together an objective rebuttal that clearly showed your ignorance as I used to do with John Martin. But this is not some loon that harmlessly sits in a corner with his 5 other friends and advocates for the idea the universe revolves around planet earth, The idiocy you promote is killing people.
      It would be nice if you followed science and doctors instead of your instincts. You keep taking atheist positions but you try to sound wise anyhow. You have no rebuttal to the idiocy of the policies being advanced by governors. i am just trying to help people think. YOu are just holding to the the media fears. Why should I listen to your fear mongering? I could just watch the boob tube for that.

      You have the freedom of speech --even on sites that reject debate. Just know that you are harming millions. And you are too young to give up living.
      Last edited by mikewhitney; 10-29-2020, 03:03 PM.

      Comment


      • Largely the point I want to make is that people can have greater insights when stepping out of the crowd and looking at things from a renewed perspective. Most people follow the crowd. Some doctors have to do what they are told -- or look for another place to work. Many people (doctors and nurses included) simply depend on the course laid out for them. I appreciate those who have a good mind and can tell us from their expertise what is wrong with the popular path.

        If the discussion and positions on this virus followed long-established recommendations and practices, there might be some merit to the ideas pushed by WHO, Gates, and Fauci. Instead, they seem to be making things up as they go along. And none of the recommendations have worked out. They seem to know less than we do. Gates keeps on pushing his vaccine agenda as if he knew beforehand that this virus would turn out to be a freak virus ... and Gates just happened to be studying up on freak viruses so he could save the world. Now WHO has to follow what Gates wants since Gates is the biggest funder of WHO. China also has a big say -- while China is operating without being locked down. This is pretty convenient in the financial realm.
        Last edited by mikewhitney; 10-29-2020, 04:24 PM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post

          I wish you could understand things a bit easier. Most doctors rely on publications and policies that surround them. Doctors have to spend too much time on paperwork and other management activities, so they are not proactive in researching the details of the virus. The situation is like all of us where we just accept what the surrounding cultural information. Plus, it is easiest to just follow the common assumptions and practices in the doctors offices and hospitals.
          Yes, on an everyday basis doctors are tied up with the vast patient load of the pandemic, which you deny exists. This false. Doctors do not rely on publications? and policies? They are knowledgeable based on information from reputable Medical sources, which is easily available and easily read.

          As far as research for vaccines for corona viruses this is ongoing research since before the SARS epidemic, and is continuous since. The scientists in research are indeed proactive and were working on possible vaccines when Trump was ridiculing the pandemic. In the pandemic during Obama's term, supported immediately and the research was as aggressive as with the history of medical epidemics and pandemics. The scientific community is responsible for the vaccines and research and not the governments regardless of the party.


          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

            Yes, on an everyday basis doctors are tied up with the vast patient load of the pandemic, which you deny exists. This false. Doctors do not rely on publications? and policies? They are knowledgeable based on information from reputable Medical sources, which is easily available and easily read.

            You reject what I say and then you say what I said. The part you did not quite include though was that doctors in hospitals have to follow protocols set up by the hospitals. In part this makes sense because standard tasks probably should have standard procedures exercised on patients. However, this means if the hospital policy has rejected something like early treatment with HCQ, the doctor first may assume this is good policy and second would not question it. He or she could be fired, as has been done with this covid fiasco.

            you have also affirmed what I was saying namely that the doctors don't research the medicine and procedures to see what to do. They use what they consider reputable medical sources -- which may not be applicable and may not be best. Of course, this does not address the research doctors sometimes do for some symptom or condition that they cannot diagnose without further research.
            As far as research for vaccines for corona viruses this is ongoing research since before the SARS epidemic, and is continuous since. The scientists in research are indeed proactive and were working on possible vaccines when Trump was ridiculing the pandemic. In the pandemic during Obama's term, supported immediately and the research was as aggressive as with the history of medical epidemics and pandemics. The scientific community is responsible for the vaccines and research and not the governments regardless of the party.
            Research indeed does continue. Before the current situation, the progress led to vaccines that caused the test animals to go into an overreactive immune system when exposed to the wild virus. Good luck finding a solution to that in one year when the scientists have not found a solution for maybe 20 years. Then, as I understand it, the current vaccines will only reduce symptoms but when not make one immune to the virus.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post


              Research indeed does continue. Before the current situation, the progress led to vaccines that caused the test animals to go into an overreactive immune system when exposed to the wild virus. Good luck finding a solution to that in one year when the scientists have not found a solution for maybe 20 years. Then, as I understand it, the current vaccines will only reduce symptoms but when not make one immune to the virus.
              I did not claim any of the above, and your still out in far left field.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                I did not claim any of the above, and your still out in far left field.
                I didn't say (or didn't mean to suggest) that you understood the history of the coronavirus vaccine issues.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post

                  I didn't say (or didn't mean to suggest) that you understood the history of the coronavirus vaccine issues.
                  It is obvious you do not, because of gross misrepresentation of the graphs in the CDC article that concluded the opposite as your assertions.

                  I understand the vaccine issues well, because I have an academic background in the science and you do not.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                    It is obvious you do not, because of gross misrepresentation of the graphs in the CDC article that concluded the opposite as your assertions.
                    I have not gotten to review the data. I do understand that flu and influenza deaths have gone to near zero. It is likely that these numbers simply were absorbed into the coronavirus category. So the charts have to be reassessed with that in mind.
                    Also, It is probably best to compare the coronavirus-related deaths to a year with maximum flu and influenza deaths rather than sort of an average of 5 year data.

                    I understand the vaccine issues well, because I have an academic background in the science and you do not.
                    That's great. You can tell me more about that someday. So you understand the failures of the coronavirus vaccine failures so far and how unlikely it is that they can make a vaccine successfully protecting people from catching or spreading the coronavirus. Hopefully the group that solves this will put out a paper explaining what unique concept they found for this.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                      I have not gotten to review the data. I do understand that flu and influenza deaths have gone to near zero. It is likely that these numbers simply were absorbed into the coronavirus category. So the charts have to be reassessed with that in mind.
                      Also, It is probably best to compare the coronavirus-related deaths to a year with maximum flu and influenza deaths rather than sort of an average of 5 year data.
                      Confusing distorted response to the clear and specific reference from the CDC and other references. The past flu season is well accounted for, and this winter's flu season has not begun



                      That's great. You can tell me more about that someday. So you understand the failures of the coronavirus vaccine failures so far and how unlikely it is that they can make a vaccine successfully protecting people from catching or spreading the coronavirus. Hopefully the group that solves this will put out a paper explaining what unique concept they found for this.
                      I may respond to this more tomorrow, but on the surface it is not a meaningful response. Useless sarcasm noted.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

                        Yesterday the US exceeded 90,000 new cases in one day.

                        We are entering the third peak, and it is larger than any before, and it's slope is quote steep (we can expect >100,000 new case in a day within a week)

                        33 states exceeded 1000 new cases in one day with Texas leading at over 7000 new cases and the top 6 (Texas, Illinois, Wisconsin, California, Florida, and Michigan) topping 4000 each.

                        yesterday the US topped 1000 deaths in a day for the 3rd day in a row, and the trend is UP.

                        Current total real mortality (total # deaths/total # cases with an outcome) = 4%

                        If we consider 1/2 the total # real cases asymptomatic or otherwise undiagnosed, it is still 2% (20x the flu). So while we have gotten better at testing (catching more non-serious cases) and better at treatment, we are STILL seeing mortality between 2 and 4%.

                        Keeping in mind that with all the mitigations we have in place, the flu hasn't even been able to make its presence known yet this fall. Think about what that means about what COVID would be if we were not doing all the mask wearing and social distancing so many are complaining about!

                        We are not yet 'rounding the corner' by any means.
                        Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-30-2020, 09:35 AM.
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                        Comment


                        • Dang. I sure got a lot of mileage out of my "bump"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            Dang. I sure got a lot of mileage out of my "bump"
                            It is still very much a real, pertinent topic
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                              It is still very much a real, pertinent topic
                              What do you think will start to happen and/or be implemented regarding Covid were Biden to be elected? Obviously you'd have to wait until he's actually in place next year for anything substantive to happen, but it seems that given even something as basic as mask wearing is now politicised so I'm not sure what policies he can implement that will have a lasting effect? Granted, it won't be any worse, but Trump and his enablers already blown a year so what are you expecting will be put in place to turn the corner?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by EvoUK View Post

                                What do you think will start to happen and/or be implemented regarding Covid were Biden to be elected? Obviously you'd have to wait until he's actually in place next year for anything substantive to happen, but it seems that given even something as basic as mask wearing is now politicised so I'm not sure what policies he can implement that will have a lasting effect? Granted, it won't be any worse, but Trump and his enablers already blown a year so what are you expecting will be put in place to turn the corner?
                                I don't know for sure, but I am fairly confident he'll take the advice of actual doctors and top scientists in the field and not be guided by social media disinformation and crackpot medical doctors operating out of their field of specialty.
                                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                                Comment

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