Coronavirus Outbreak...

[oxmixmudd]

Might want to read your own source. It says, "No randomized controlled trials (RCT) on the use of masks as source control for SARS-CoV-2 has been published," and that a referenced study "did not use COVID-19 patients, and it is not yet known whether seasonal coronavirus behaves the same as SARS-CoV-2."

So all I can I say is thank you for supporting my point.

You have to read the entire paper MM. Try down around section 6, in "Discussion and Recommendations", or just try to read and understand the graph I posted in the previous post:

Source: https://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf

Our review of the literature offers evidence in favor of widespread mask use to reduce community transmission: nonmedical masks use materials that obstruct droplets of the necessary size; people are most infectious in the initial period post-infection, where it is common to have few or no symptoms (10–16); non-medical masks have been effective in reducing transmission of influenza; non-medical masks have been shown to be effective in small trials at blocking transmission of coronavirus; and places and time periods where mask usage is required or widespread have shown substantially lower community transmission. The available evidence suggests that near-universal adoption of non-medical masks when out in public, in combination with complementary public health measures could successfully reduce effective-R to below 1.0, thereby stopping community spread. Economic analysis suggests that the impact of mask wearing could be thousands of US dollars saved per person per mask (93).

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Now, this paper was in April (chosen to show that EARLY in the game the evidence was clear that mask wearing helps). Subsequent studies have only amplified and refined the point. If you wish, I can do a quick literature review and post links to some representative sample of papers or articles and the pertinent organizations.

How deep a hole would you like to dig for yourself?

[Mountain Man]

You have to read the entire paper MM.

I did. I just chose to quote the relevant portions which explicitly say that there are no studies proving that paper masks and bandanas will stop the China flu. The portion you cite above is more of a recommendation rather than a fact-based conclusion.

[EvoUK]

I am in favor of wearing masks. I would prefer it if government mandates were not necessary (and in some countries the culture is so strong wrt societal responsibility they are not necessary). However, the reason government mandates are necessary in the US is because of ignorant yet arrogant folks like yourself coupled with the rampant misinformation floating around in Trumpian circles.

I was happy that the people running the store were willing to stand up to your ignorance and protect the people inside the store from your foolishness. Your attempt to get in without one simply highlights your ignorance, arrogance, and your lack of concern for your community. 'wetting yourself' is you being you and has no correlation with reality.

Quite. The fact that he actually tried to gain entry to a shop or other establishment without a mask- forcing them to intervene- is unbelievably selfish and arrogant.

[oxmixmudd]

I did. I just chose to quote the relevant portions which explicitly say that there are no studies proving that paper masks and bandanas will stop the China flu. The portion you cite above is more of a recommendation rather than a fact-based conclusion.

No you didn't. You cherry picked one line under the assumption that one invalidated the rest of the text. Which only shows the point I was already making - that you have no clue how to evaluate or understand science or scientific research.

[mikewhitney]

Hello,

I am stepping in a bit late here, but within the last two pages I see the claim that only 6% of deaths attributed to Covid-19 are in fact due to Covid-19 and that the rest are expected deaths we get from the flu and all other diseases.

I see one very simple piece of evidence that suggests (dare I say proves?) that Covid-19 has in fact killed more than the 220K attributed so far. Here are the CDC numbers for how many Americans have died each week this year. You can see that since late March, 10,000 to 20,000 more people have died each week than is expected (i.e., average from previous years, scaled by population growth). Can we once an for all put the bed the idea that less than 200K people have died from Covid-19? Or is someone going to try to argue that the limited shutdowns have somehow causes the excess deaths?

Figure 1 from https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/...cid=mm6942e2_w

Welcome to tweb.

Things that seem obvious are not always so. I have only heard it mentioned about flu and influenza deaths being reduced to near nothing since about the time of the start of the covid-19 thing. If this was accurate, then you should try adjusting the chart by reduction of the covid-19 deaths by "normal" flu and influenza numbers while increasing the non-covid-19 deaths by the amount just subtracted from covid-19. One important thing here is that the flu symptoms have mostly been treated as covid-19 cases in the hospitals. And many people report inaccurate death certificates of their relatives -- who were marked as covid-19 deaths but had died from other causes.

[mikewhitney]

You have to read the entire paper MM. Try down around section 6, in "Discussion and Recommendations", or just try to read and understand the graph I posted in the previous post:

[CITE=https://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf]
. . .
Now, this paper was in April (chosen to show that EARLY in the game the evidence was clear that mask wearing helps). Subsequent studies have only amplified and refined the point. If you wish, I can do a quick literature review and post links to some representative sample of papers or articles and the pertinent organizations.

How deep a hole would you like to dig for yourself?

I'm seeing lots of material showing the masks ineffective. Of course, all the media and internet right now are showing lots of data going both directions on every covid-19 issue. I hope to check the pdf you attached

[mikewhitney]

Quite. The fact that he actually tried to gain entry to a shop or other establishment without a mask- forcing them to intervene- is unbelievably selfish and arrogant.

Indeed. The masses can act with selfishness and arrogance and ignorance. That is what you meant, right?

[shunyadragon]

Indeed. The masses can act with selfishness and arrogance and ignorance. That is what you meant, right?

Classic self reflection of your view of the pandemic.

[mikewhitney]

Classic self reflection of your view of the pandemic.

Wow you really missed the topic this time. The topic was about the people's panic response.

[shunyadragon]

Wow you really missed the topic this time. The topic was about the people's panic response.

My response still stands as given. As far as I am aware of there was no panic, just Conservative political denial of the pandemic.

[Mountain Man]

Quite. The fact that he actually tried to gain entry to a shop or other establishment without a mask- forcing them to intervene- is unbelievably selfish and arrogant.

And this is where paranoia has gotten us, where simple common sense is condemned as "selfish and arrogant".

[LiconaFan97]

And this is where paranoia has gotten us, where simple common sense is condemned as "selfish and arrogant".

Wouldn't Pascal's Wager indicate that wearing a face covering is the wise move?

[Mountain Man]

Wouldn't Pascal's Wager indicate that wearing a face covering is the wise move?

How far are you willing to stretch that, I wonder? Hundreds of thousands of people die directly and indirectly from the common flu every year, and you could theoretically protect them by permanently self-quarantining, social distancing, and wearing a mask whenever you are forced to venture beyond the safe confines of your home. Are you willing to do it? After all, if can save even a single life, then it's all worth it, right?

[mikewhitney]

My response still stands as given. As far as I am aware of there was no panic, just Conservative political denial of the pandemic.

Typical leftist mentality. Useless symbolic behavior is used as the solution to the virus.

[shunyadragon]

Typical leftist mentality. Useless symbolic behavior is used as the solution to the virus.

Symbolic occasional behavior is all the Republicans and some churches are willing to do sponsoring super spreading events.

Source: https://www.cbs17.com/community/health/coronavirus/new-data-more-covid-19-clusters-in-nc-coming-from-social-gatherings-religious-services/

New data: More COVID-19 clusters in NC coming from social gatherings, religious services

CORONAVIRUS
by: Colleen Quigley

Posted: Oct 27, 2020 / 04:59 PM EDT / Updated: Oct 27, 2020 / 06:59 PM EDT
RALEIGH, N.C. (WNCN) – More clusters of COVID-19 are being reported after social gatherings and religious services, according to newly released data.

According to a report from the North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services, COVID-19 cases associated with clusters in religious gatherings have increased since mid-September. Cluster-associated cases at social gatherings like parties, weddings, and funerals increased in September.

“Our community has to gather in a different way, but we can still be community to each other,” said Associate Pastor at Pullen Memorial Baptist Church Chalice Overy.

Overy said since the COVID-19 crisis began in March, they’ve held services virtually.

“We weren’t going to expose our congregation to danger by inviting people to be there in person,” Overy said.

She said that last month, church leaders considered inviting members back for in-person service in accordance with Gov. Roy Cooper’s executive orders, but felt the case count was still too high.

“If our condition is not any better, it doesn’t really matter how much time it’s been. That’s something we’ve always been committed to is the governor’s recommendations, and also paying attention to the numbers rather than our desire to reconnect,” she said.

According to data released Monday by DHHS, college and university campuses have reported the greatest number of COVID-19 clusters with 175. There were 88 clusters reported at religious gatherings, followed by 65 clusters reported at manufacturing workplaces.

The greatest number of cluster-associated cases have been reported at meat and poultry processing plants with 3,842 cases, according to DHHS. Colleges and universities reported the second largest number of cluster-associated cases with 1,959. That is followed by 1,180 cluster-associated cases at religious gatherings.

The most cluster-associated deaths have been reported at meat and poultry processing plants at 19. There were 18 cluster-related deaths been reported at religious gatherings, followed by 10 at independent living facilities.

According to the DHHS data, cluster-associated cases at colleges and universities held steady since September after peaking in August.

DHHS said no cluster-associated cases have been reported in October in agriculture, food processing, or construction/contractor workplaces.

Dr. Abhi Mehrotra, the Vice-Chair of the UNC Department of Emergency Medicine who oversees the UNC Health system’s emergency department group, said the clusters of cases vary by region across the state.

He said the virus is still very active, which concerns him as flu season approaches.

“We’re seeing not just the COVID care, but the non-COVID care, as well. That’s really straining the system in terms of the number of patients in hospital beds,” he said.

Mehrotra said the rise in cases in social and religious settings is a reminder that everyone should social distance, wear masks, and frequently wash their hands in every environment.

“I know that everyone is tired. Our staff is tired. Those that you talk to in the community, my neighbors, are tired. But the rules are there, the guidelines are there on sound evidence. Especially what I worry about is with the cold weather months being indoors and having gatherings,” he said.

A cluster is defined as five or more cases present in the same general setting during the same time period.

The DHHS data represent clusters reported after May 22. However, clusters in meat and poultry processing were tracked beginning in April.

While congregate living settings and schools are required to report clusters to the local health department, other settings are not.

DHHS said the data are limited to clusters voluntarily reported or identified through contact tracing, and therefor could be an under representation.

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