Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Coronavirus Outbreak...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Cure? No... we didn't have the boys re-vaccinated. They lost their allergies around the time infant vaccines lose their efficacy. As I said, the timing was suspicious, and the doctor confirmed our suspicions despite his extreme reluctance to do so.
    Even if the allergies were caused by vaccines, there is no reason to expect the allergies to go away when the vaccines lose their efficacy. The allergies wouldn't be caused by the vaccine, but rather by food proteins that just happen to be mixed in with the vaccine.

    If the doctor had said, "Possibly," or "We can't rule it out," that would have been pretty defensible. Science can't really rule anything out 100%, and even though studies have failed to find a correlation between vaccines and food allergies, you would think there is some risk if the vaccines contain food proteins. But to say that it's "very likely" is not defensible, and would explain why the doctor said, "you didn't hear it from me."

    (BTW, I agree with you that vaccines are not perfectly safe. That's why we have the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.)

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      Wrong. Unless you want to wait months/years for any possible side effects to occur, there is always a risk with releasing a vaccine too soon. And even after all that, they could miss things in the testing. The swine flu vaccine used in 1976 was tested and then distributed and then people started coming down with Guillain-Barré disease which caused paralysis.

      So there is always a risk in a new vaccine. But I would rather trust our doctors here than the WHO's chinese/russian doctors.
      Just had a conversation with my coworker. He almost died from G-B after getting a flu shot when he was very young.
      That's what
      - She

      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
      - Stephen R. Donaldson

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Heck, even "routine" vaccines are not 100% safe. I'm not anti-vaccination, but I do think we are an over vaccinated society, and there are a number of side effects that the medical community is reluctant to own up to. Both of my sons developed severe allergies, one to peanut and one to fish (many vaccines are made with peanut and fish products) which started around the time they received their first vaccinations until about 7-years later, which is when vaccines usually need a booster. They went from being deathly allergic to having no allergic reaction at all almost overnight. My wife found the timing suspicious and asked our doctor if the infant vaccines could have been the cause of the allergies. He was extremely reluctant to answer the question, but after she wouldn't let up, he finally said, in effect, "Yes, that is very likely, but you didn't hear it from me."
        Sure, MM. It's a world wide conspiracy and cover-up.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Stoic View Post
          Even if the allergies were caused by vaccines, there is no reason to expect the allergies to go away when the vaccines lose their efficacy.
          I'm just telling you what the doctor said.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            I'm just telling you what the doctor said.
            The doctor probably figured you out to be crackpots who wouldn't take no for an answer.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by JimL View Post
              Trump new strategy is "Herd immunity" which equates to the infection of 65 - 70% of the population and 2.3 million deaths. This so called expert health advisor, who was dug up for him by FOXNEWS, who has no experience other than being a radiologist, aka an xray technician.
              Also known as Conservative Eugenics.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                Also known as Conservative Eugenics.
                It's working for 99% of those infected. And it's working for Sweden.
                That's what
                - She

                Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                - Stephen R. Donaldson

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                  It's working for 99% of those infected. And it's working for Sweden.
                  Actually no, it is not clear the Swedish consider their efforts and their original strategy a success.

                  Source: https://www.ft.com/content/7acfc5b8-d96f-455b-9f36-b70dc850428f



                  Sweden is no longer the outlier it used to be on coronavirus. It no longer has the least restrictive approach to the pandemic in Europe and it has lost its briefly held status as the country with the highest number of deaths per capita after its number of Covid-19 cases decreased over the summer. Its economy has suffered less than the European average in recent months, but at least as much and possibly more than its Nordic neighbors.

                  “We get a second chance. We don’t want this to take off again. We now have the chance to learn and do additional things to avoid things taking off,” said Cecilia Söderberg-Nauclér, a critic of Sweden’s approach and a professor of cell and molecular immunology at Karolinska University Hospital in Stockholm.

                  The debate about the wisdom of Sweden’s lighter-touch strategy on the pandemic is as fierce as it has ever been, but the situation on the ground has calmed during its main summer month of July.

                  The number of cases per capita fell by 86 per cent in the month from the end of June, although they have risen slightly in recent days and are still relatively high by European standards.

                  © Copyright Original Source



                  There is an interesting line of thinking concerning what human efforts that will control the spread of COVID-19, which I may address further in a later post.

                  My concern from the beginning of the CIOVID-19 pandemic is the lack of an organized aggressive effort to protect the elderly and the vulnerable. It was known very very early that the high fatality rate was a very real threat. I have never heard nor seen and concern from Donald Trump for concern over the elderly and vulnerable, nor was any plan ever implemented to protect them.

                  It is also acknowledged that countries that are relatively isolated like Sweden, New Zealand and Taiwan cannot be compared to large diverse countries with extensive connections worldwide like the USA.

                  Source: https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-what-happened-in-sweden-and-you-cant-compare-it-to-u-s



                  Why Sweden’s COVID-19 Strategy Can’t Work in the U.S.

                  Sweden has seen a higher death rate than its neighbors. JESSICA GOW/TT News Agency/AFP via Getty Images

                  Some Americans opposed to lockdown measures look to Sweden for inspiration, which has largely remained open. But Sweden hasn’t come through the pandemic unscathed. Sweden’s per capita death rate was 36 per 100,000, which is higher than the United States at 27 and neighboring Denmark at 9.

                  All data and statistics are based on publicly available data at the time of publication. Some information may be out of date. Visit our coronavirus hub and follow our live updates page for the most recent information on the COVID-19 outbreak.

                  For Americans anxious for the end of government-mandated coronavirus lockdowns, or those opposed to these restrictions in the first place, Sweden has become a rallying cry.

                  In March, while much of Europe was closing businesses and schools, and asking citizens to stay home, Sweden largely remained open, including restaurants, shops, and gyms.

                  Swedes do practice physical distancing, but officials rely on people to voluntarily follow these guidelines. People over age 70, who are at higher risk from COVID-19, are also advised to limit physical contact and stay home.

                  Sweden not untouched by COVID-19 Sweden’s more relaxed approach — coexisting with the new coronavirus rather than declaring war on it — hasn’t been entirely painless.

                  “In terms of the mortality rate per capita from COVID-19, Sweden is not doing as well as the other countries nearby in Scandinavia that are similar but have approached the pandemic in a different way,” said Dr. Saahir Khan, assistant clinical professor of infectious disease at UCI Health in Orange, California.

                  As of May 18, Sweden’s per capita death rate was 36 per 100,000, which is higher than the United States at 27 and neighboring Denmark at 9.

                  Over this past week, Sweden also had the highest per capita death rate for COVID-19 in Europe.

                  Sweden, Denmark, and other Scandinavian countries all have strong public healthcare systems and low levels of health inequality.

                  Even with Sweden’s lack of a lockdown, the country is still a long way from herd immunity. This is the point at which enough people are immune to a virus that it stops spreading out of control.

                  Scientists estimate that herd immunity for the new coronavirus occurs at 70 percent.

                  Recent antibody testing in Sweden found that 7.3 percent of the population had had an infection with the new coronavirus.

                  Spencer Fox, PhD, a data scientist at the University of Texas at Austin, says this means the country “needs 10 times more infections to actually reach herd immunity to halt the epidemic.”

                  If deaths in Sweden continue at the same rate, this could result in around 38,000 deaths by that time.

                  The pandemic has also exposed some of the country’s health inequalities. Immigrant communities in Sweden were among those hardest-hit by the virus.

                  On June 3, Sweden’s chief epidemiologist, Anders Tegnell, admitted that “improvements” could have been made in how the country responded to COVID-19, but he defended the decision not to go into lock down.

                  “There are things that we could have done better but in general I think that Sweden has chosen the right way,” Tegnell said in an interview with Swedish newspaper Dagens Nyheter.

                  He said the country’s approach to physical distancing “worked well,” but added that long-term care homes for older adults weren’t protected as well as they should have been.

                  “We knew that group was very fragile and that we would get a lot of deaths if they got infected. But we didn’t know that the disease would enter so easily and for the spread to be so big,” he said.

                  Sweden had to adjust its strategy for dealing with COVID-19 after a spike in deaths at long-term care homes. This shows the challenges of letting one segment of society move freely while trying to protect others.

                  “You may not be at high risk from COVID-19, but as a society we’re interconnected — the things we do affect other people,” Khan said. “So I would ask people to keep that in mind when they’re looking at Sweden’s experience with COVID-19.”

                  Sweden’s economy has also not come through unscathed. The country has experienced similar economic disruptions as in Denmark and Norway, both of which enacted more strict measures.

                  © Copyright Original Source

                  Last edited by shunyadragon; 09-08-2020, 12:09 PM.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/11/kids-caught-coronavirus-at-childcare-infected-family-cdc-report-says.html



                    Kids caught the coronavirus at child care centers and infected family members, CDC report says

                    Twelve kids who likely caught Covid-19 at three child care centers in Utah went on to spread the virus elsewhere and infected some parents and siblings, according to a new study published Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

                    The authors of the study note that research had previously shown that kids 10 years and older could spread the virus in schools. The new study is evidence that even younger kids, including an 8-month-old baby, can still spread the virus, despite not getting severely sick from Covid-19, the researchers said.

                    The study looked at outbreaks that occurred in three child care centers in Salt Lake City, between April and July. Using contact tracing data collected at the time of the outbreaks, the researchers used the data to “retrospectively construct transmission chains” to determine precisely how the virus spread. A total of 83 kids attended the three child care centers included in the study, the researchers said.

                    Among the three outbreaks, the researchers said 12 kids were infected with Covid-19 at the child care centers, though three of them never developed symptoms and nine developed just mild symptoms. The study says those 12 kids came into contact with 46 people not associated with the child care facilities and appear to have infected 12, or more than a quarter, of them. Those infected by the kids include six mothers, one of whom was hospitalized, three siblings and three others, the study says.

                    “Transmission was observed from two of three children with confirmed, asymptomatic COVID-19,” the researchers wrote, providing more evidence that those who do not have Covid-19 symptoms can still spread the virus. “COVID-19 is less severe in children than it is in adults, but children can still play a role in transmission.”

                    The role that kids, especially asymptomatic children, play in spreading the virus has become a much-contested topic as the debate over whether and how to reopen schools for in-person learning continues. While the researchers focused specifically on child care settings and not necessarily schools, they recommended testing as a useful mitigation and research tool.

                    “Two of three asymptomatic children likely transmitted SARS-CoV-2 to their parents and possibly to their teachers,” they wrote. “Having SARS-CoV-2 testing available, timely results, and testing of contacts of patients in child care settings regardless of symptoms can help prevent transmission and provide a better understanding of the role played by children in transmission.”

                    The researchers noted a few limitations of their study. Between April 1 and July 10, Salt Lake County identified 17 child care centers with at least two confirmed Covid-19 cases within a 14-day period, but the study only includes data on three of those centers.

                    The researchers added that guidance for contact tracing methodology changed during the pandemic and could have led to inconsistent data collection systems. Also, they said initial testing criteria was more restrictive and could have led to an undercount of infections.

                    And finally, the researchers noted that at one of the centers, they could not find the source of the outbreak, so it’s possible that cases at the center were brought in from another source. At the two other facilities, the researchers said they traced the source of infection to staff members who contracted Covid-19 through a family member.

                    “Testing of contacts of laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 cases in child care settings, including children who might not have symptoms, could improve control of transmission from child care attendees to family members,” the researchers concluded.

                    © Copyright Original Source

                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                      Actually no, it is not clear the Swedish consider their efforts and their original strategy a success.
                      At this point, now that the evidence is pretty much in, the vast majority of the world seems to consider Sweden's approach to Covid as an example of What Not To Do.

                      It's amusing to see the evidence-free group of US conservatives still touting the Swedish strategy though.
                      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        Trump new strategy is "Herd immunity" which equates to the infection of 65 - 70% of the population and 2.3 million deaths. This so called expert health advisor, who was dug up for him by FOXNEWS, who has no experience other than being a radiologist, aka an xray technician.
                        To say an x-ray technician is a radiologist is like saying that an LPN who trims a patient's toenails is a podiatrist.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                          To say an x-ray technician is a radiologist is like saying that an LPN who trims a patient's toenails is a podiatrist.
                          Trump, of course, is not an authority on COVID-19 nor virology. He is leader of the country it is his responsibility to consult and follow the scientific and medical authorities as Obama did.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                            To say an x-ray technician is a radiologist is like saying that an LPN who trims a patient's toenails is a podiatrist.
                            The point is that he has no experience in infectious disease or pandemics. So why was he brought on to the Administrations team? Because FOXNews dug him up and he publicly agreed with and defended the presidents horrific response to the pandemic.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                              Trump, of course, is not an authority on COVID-19 nor virology. He is leader of the country it is his responsibility to consult and follow the scientific and medical authorities as Obama did.
                              It is on record that Trump received briefings from different sources describing in pretty much the scientific and medical dangerous nature of the pandemic. This was reflected in his admission of lying concerning the seriousness of the pandemic. He knew enough scientific detail, but lied.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                                It is on record that Trump received briefings from different sources describing in pretty much the scientific and medical dangerous nature of the pandemic. This was reflected in his admission of lying concerning the seriousness of the pandemic. He knew enough scientific detail, but lied.
                                After his knowledge of the danger the virus posed was exposed in Woodwards book, Trumps newfound excuse for downplaying it was that he didn't want to create a panic. Nobody with half a brain would believe that. Informing the American people of the danger so that they can better protect themselves was hardly going to create a panic. Although we are talking about Trump here, so perhaps he did believe that. But then, what does he even mean by a panic? So the question remains, was it just his, and or his advisors stupidity? And if not that, then what was the real reason behind his downplaying of the danger? Whatever the true answer is, the decision is responsible for tens of thousands of deaths, an unprecedented economic collapse, and for that reason alone he should be voted out of office.
                                Last edited by JimL; 09-12-2020, 04:16 PM.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                148 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                395 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                113 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                197 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                84 responses
                                365 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post JimL
                                by JimL
                                 
                                Working...
                                X