Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

The De-Ukrainification of the National Security Council

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The De-Ukrainification of the National Security Council

    The De-Ukrainification of the National Security Council

    Screenshot 2020-02-08 11.46.04.jpg

    Firing Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, a Ukraine expert at the National Security Council, and his twin brother Yevgeny, an NSC lawyer, is just the start of a promised restructuring and a rebuilding of the National Security Council.

    Last September, National Security Advisor Robert O’Brien pledged to drastically downsize what he called the “bloated” NSC staff, so it is encouraging to see that some of that “bloat” was just escorted out of the White House on Friday. The swelling of the NSC ranks was real and Obama was to blame. During the George W. Bush administration, there were 100 policy professionals working in the NSC under Condoleezza Rice — but, the number ballooned to 236 under President Obama.

    President Trump should have demanded that the NSC be streamlined in 2016, but he has been poorly served by the Council and was undermined by a few too many Vindmans. O’Brien’s goal is to bring the NSC down to fewer than 120 policy staffers. However, his real goal should be to retain only those whose first priorities are to truly serve the president. Lt Col. Alexander Vindman is not one of those.

    Like several of those testifying at the impeachment hearings against Trump, Vindman’s allegiance to Ukraine was clear. During the preliminary televised hearings, Vindman claimed that in the spring of 2019 he became aware of what he called “outside influencers” promoting what he called a false narrative of Ukraine inconsistent with what he believed were “the consensus views of the interagency.” He stated that he believed that what he called a “false” narrative which suggested that Ukrainian government officials attempted to derail Trump’s candidacy in 2016 was “harmful to U.S. government policy… and undermined U.S. government efforts to expand cooperation with Ukraine.”

    In his testimony against the President, Vindman made the statement that “a strong and independent Ukraine is critical to U.S. national security interests because Ukraine is a frontline state and a bulwark against Russian aggression.” And he was hostile to anyone who did not agree.

    This ignored the fact that even Politico reported in January 2017 that Ukrainian officials tried to undermine Trump in the 2016 election by publicly disseminating documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggesting that they were investigating the matter....
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  • #2

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      [ATTACH=CONFIG]42613[/ATTACH]
      He's still employed, yes? Just not in the White House?
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        He's still employed, yes? Just not in the White House?
        Way to ruin the joke there buster.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          The De-Ukrainification of the National Security Council

          [ATTACH=CONFIG]42611[/ATTACH]

          Firing Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, a Ukraine expert at the National Security Council, and his twin brother Yevgeny, an NSC lawyer, is just the start of a promised restructuring and a rebuilding of the National Security Council.

          Last September, National Security Advisor Robert O’Brien pledged to drastically downsize what he called the “bloated” NSC staff, so it is encouraging to see that some of that “bloat” was just escorted out of the White House on Friday. The swelling of the NSC ranks was real and Obama was to blame. During the George W. Bush administration, there were 100 policy professionals working in the NSC under Condoleezza Rice — but, the number ballooned to 236 under President Obama.

          President Trump should have demanded that the NSC be streamlined in 2016, but he has been poorly served by the Council and was undermined by a few too many Vindmans. O’Brien’s goal is to bring the NSC down to fewer than 120 policy staffers. However, his real goal should be to retain only those whose first priorities are to truly serve the president. Lt Col. Alexander Vindman is not one of those.

          Like several of those testifying at the impeachment hearings against Trump, Vindman’s allegiance to Ukraine was clear. During the preliminary televised hearings, Vindman claimed that in the spring of 2019 he became aware of what he called “outside influencers” promoting what he called a false narrative of Ukraine inconsistent with what he believed were “the consensus views of the interagency.” He stated that he believed that what he called a “false” narrative which suggested that Ukrainian government officials attempted to derail Trump’s candidacy in 2016 was “harmful to U.S. government policy… and undermined U.S. government efforts to expand cooperation with Ukraine.”

          In his testimony against the President, Vindman made the statement that “a strong and independent Ukraine is critical to U.S. national security interests because Ukraine is a frontline state and a bulwark against Russian aggression.” And he was hostile to anyone who did not agree.

          This ignored the fact that even Politico reported in January 2017 that Ukrainian officials tried to undermine Trump in the 2016 election by publicly disseminating documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggesting that they were investigating the matter....
          So you disagree with Vindman that a strong Ukrain is in America's interests, because it is on the frontline against Russian expansion and aggression?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by simplicio View Post
            So you disagree with Vindman that a strong Ukrain is in America's interests, because it is on the frontline against Russian expansion and aggression?
            It's not "critical". What difference does it make if Russia takes another Eastern Ukraine area that is mostly populated by Russians anyway?
            Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by simplicio View Post
              So you disagree with Vindman that a strong Ukrain is in America's interests, because it is on the frontline against Russian expansion and aggression?
              So you want to focus on Vindman's concern as we move the Presidency beyond the internal sabatoge? Vindman was weakening our government as he supposedly sought aid for Urkaine. I just don't see that as a good way to protect America.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                He's still employed, yes? Just not in the White House?
                What will Vindman's next assignment be? Will he retire or does the Army need him to continue what he has been doing?

                Comment


                • #9
                  However, his real goal should be to retain only those whose first priorities are to truly serve the president. Lt Col. Alexander Vindman is not one of those.
                  Funny, and here I thought the point of serving on the National Security Council staff would be to serve the nation. I'd expect nothing less than these petty shenanigans from Trump.

                  This cult of personal loyalty to Trump is troubling in the extreme.
                  "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by myth View Post
                    Funny, and here I thought the point of serving on the National Security Council staff would be to serve the nation. I'd expect nothing less than these petty shenanigans from Trump.

                    This cult of personal loyalty to Trump is troubling in the extreme.
                    Another falls to TDS.
                    Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by myth View Post
                      Funny, and here I thought the point of serving on the National Security Council staff would be to serve the nation. I'd expect nothing less than these petty shenanigans from Trump.

                      This cult of personal loyalty to Trump is troubling in the extreme.
                      The problem is that Vindman was serving the wrong nation. Simple mistake?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                        So you disagree with Vindman that a strong Ukrain is in America's interests, because it is on the frontline against Russian expansion and aggression?
                        I think it's grossly exaggerated for political purposes. Was Crimea not important?
                        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                          It's not "critical". What difference does it make if Russia takes another Eastern Ukraine area that is mostly populated by Russians anyway?
                          Now there is an example of loyalty to trump corrupting a person's understanding of reality.
                          He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                          "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            Now there is an example of loyalty to trump corrupting a person's understanding of reality.
                            Shuny has 'airball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!', JimL turns nasty, you in turn have your tells.

                            Is it so hard to admit that demi is right, again?
                            Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                              So you disagree with Vindman that a strong Ukrain is in America's interests, because it is on the frontline against Russian expansion and aggression?
                              Yup. Exactly right. You nailed it. What other possible reason could there be?

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by seer, Today, 02:30 PM
                              6 responses
                              32 views
                              1 like
                              Last Post Cow Poke  
                              Started by whag, Today, 02:17 PM
                              2 responses
                              18 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post whag
                              by whag
                               
                              Started by Cow Poke, Today, 01:58 PM
                              7 responses
                              26 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Cow Poke  
                              Started by CivilDiscourse, Today, 07:03 AM
                              64 responses
                              223 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Cow Poke  
                              Started by Cow Poke, Yesterday, 07:38 PM
                              40 responses
                              188 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post rogue06
                              by rogue06
                               
                              Working...
                              X