Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Communist Ideology in America's Security Agencies

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
    Like I said... if you don't want to contribute to the discussion ... I'm not sure what you are doing here.
    I did contribute. I made clear it's a nutcase video. You are free to ignore that or benefit from the contribution. You would do well not to fill your head with such crazy nonsense, but it is your life.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      I did contribute. I made clear it's a nutcase video. You are free to ignore that or benefit from the contribution. You would do well not to fill your head with such crazy nonsense, but it is your life.
      You have not contributed anything. That certainly is your option. But if you aren't injecting knowledge here, then there are other places to hang out.

      I had hoped you had some privileged information about the author. This would have been interesting and would have given a little more caution toward acceptance of the video.

      There are people who give true information about the untrustworthy writers and there are untrustworthy people who give false testimony about such writers. This is the crazy world we live in.
      Last edited by mikewhitney; 01-21-2020, 03:53 PM.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
        She may have made a short comment about this. I was paying most attention to the moments she talked about the evidence she found about Comey's college days and his keen interest in Reinhold Niebuhr. She also mentioned a paper by Brennan -- something about revolutions. She seemed to stick mostly to evidence of their viewpoints rather than about why the apparent goal of fighting communism would be promulgated even if their interest is in promoting socialism/communism.

        It seems like the Dems like to scare us about Communism as the boogeyman at the front door while letting it's sister, socialist policy, in through the back door.
        I could see it as a case of projection, which seems likely since the red scare paranoia from the left has been so over the top. However, the contradiction still bothers me because of the fact that intelligence has been so relentless in fighting against Russia at almost every step (especially with what we saw in Ukraine and Syria).
        "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by seanD View Post
          I could see it as a case of projection, which seems likely since the red scare paranoia from the left has been so over the top. However, the contradiction still bothers me because of the fact that intelligence has been so relentless in fighting against Russia at almost every step (especially with what we saw in Ukraine and Syria).
          The left was fine with Russia when it was Communist.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by seanD View Post
            I could see it as a case of projection, which seems likely since the red scare paranoia from the left has been so over the top. However, the contradiction still bothers me because of the fact that intelligence has been so relentless in fighting against Russia at almost every step (especially with what we saw in Ukraine and Syria).
            People could be against Russia while still being interested in Communism/Socialism. People that like Communism often think that the previous failures simply mean that Communism just hasn't been correctly implemented yet.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by seanD View Post
              The video's too long. But how does she square the contradiction of intelligence embracing a communist/Stalinist ideology on one hand, as she claims, and spreading fearmonger about Russia and the red scare to ridiculous levels to the public on the other?
              Marxists had internal conflicts, the big conflict between Stalin and Trotsky is well-established. Neocons (Irving Kristol is the big, big example) were Trotskyites and Trotskyites hated Stalin and his USSR.

              Trotskyites branded themselves as 'neocons' and were aggressive against the USSR, but for them it was always an intra-Communism struggle.
              Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

              Comment


              • #52
                It is not an exaggeration to say the neoconservatism is Trotskyism, neocons are Marxist.

                The Trotskyist pedigree of neoconservatism is no secret; the original neocon, Irving Kristol, acknowledges it with relish: “I regard myself to have been a young Trostkyite and I have not a single bitter memory.” Nor is there any doubt about the influence — one might almost say hegemony — of “former Communists” on the post-war conservative movement. Just read the words of one neocon, Seymour Martin Lipset:

                From the anti-Stalinists who became conservatives — including James Burnham, Whittaker Chambers, and Irving Kristol — the Right gained a political education and, in some cases, an injection of passion. The ex-radicals brought with them the knowledge that ideological movements must have journals and magazines to articulate their perspectives. In 1955, for example, William F. Buckley, Jr., launched National Review at the urging of Willi Schlamm, a former German Communist. In its early years, National Review was largely written and edited by the Buckley family and a handful of former Communists, Trotskyists, and socialists, such as Burnham and Chambers. It played a major role in creating the Goldwaterite and Reaganite New Right and in stimulating an anti-Soviet foreign policy.
                https://www.lewrockwell.com/2001/11/...e-for-trotsky/
                Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                  It is not an exaggeration to say the neoconservatism is Trotskyism, neocons are Marxist.
                  Certainly no communist could ever see the error of his ways!

                  Have you actually read anything from Whitaker Chambers?

                  And Lew Rockwell is an interesting source for a real Christian to use to show neocons are pinkos!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                    Certainly no communist could ever see the error of his ways!

                    Have you actually read anything from Whitaker Chambers?
                    What drives leftists to forge new careers by siding with their former enemies? These apostates don’t simply retool or change course — they make an epic transformation, joining the very forces they once sought to upend. From Whittaker Chambers to David Horowitz, they customarily announce their volte face and market themselves as insiders ready to blow the whistle on their former comrades.

                    Often a team of elders, who already made the ideological switch, appears to bless them and ease their transition, providing new publishing outlets and career opportunities. In books, articles, and public appearances, these former reds beat a noisy retreat from their old commitments, displaying an unearned confidence in their new view of the world and a hair-on-fire intolerance for those still adhering to their prior convictions. Oddly, after convicting themselves for a long record of naiveté, ignorance, disloyalty, and worse, these born-again conservatives expect us to trust their latest political judgments.


                    And Lew Rockwell is an interesting source for a real Christian to use to show neocons are pinkos!
                    What would Tweb be without wormtongues questioning if other people are 'real Christians'?
                    Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                      Marxists had internal conflicts, the big conflict between Stalin and Trotsky is well-established. Neocons (Irving Kristol is the big, big example) were Trotskyites and Trotskyites hated Stalin and his USSR.

                      Trotskyites branded themselves as 'neocons' and were aggressive against the USSR, but for them it was always an intra-Communism struggle.
                      I've always considered neocons a totally different breed from actual constitutional conservatives. Like I view someone like Rand Paul as a true conservative with an ideology completely different from a Lindsey Graham, the latter of whom wouldn't hesitate to burn the constitution if it was necessary to give more leeway to the military and intelligence apparatus.
                      "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                        What drives leftists to forge new careers by siding with their former enemies? These apostates don’t simply retool or change course — they make an epic transformation, joining the very forces they once sought to upend. From Whittaker Chambers to David Horowitz, they customarily announce their volte face and market themselves as insiders ready to blow the whistle on their former comrades.

                        Often a team of elders, who already made the ideological switch, appears to bless them and ease their transition, providing new publishing outlets and career opportunities. In books, articles, and public appearances, these former reds beat a noisy retreat from their old commitments, displaying an unearned confidence in their new view of the world and a hair-on-fire intolerance for those still adhering to their prior convictions. Oddly, after convicting themselves for a long record of naiveté, ignorance, disloyalty, and worse, these born-again conservatives expect us to trust their latest political judgments.
                        So, no, nothing from Chambers himself. And I think it pertinent that you see Wm F Bickley as a hapless tool of the Trotskyites! I would ask if you've ever read anything by Buckley, but I think it likely that you would not answer directly, preferring to post from Lew Rockwell.

                        https://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/09/...of-christians/

                        How many of those ideas would be condemned as antichrist by Christians here on tweb?

                        Is repentance really possible? I think it is


                        What would Tweb be without wormtongues questioning if other people are 'real Christians'?
                        Worm tongues?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                          People could be against Russia while still being interested in Communism/Socialism. People that like Communism often think that the previous failures simply mean that Communism just hasn't been correctly implemented yet.
                          socialismfork.jpg

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            [ATTACH=CONFIG]42295[/ATTACH]
                            And welcome to the paranoid world of today's Christian conservatism, where Wm F Buckley is a pinko. But is it either Christian or conservative, or more like the twilight zone?

                            Maybe no one has seen the film Dr Strangelove, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb. An OP on communist infiltration of the US government becomes an argument against neocons!

                            Neoconservatism was a reaction against the new left, and collected hardliner cold warriors! It did pick up a lot of former socialists, which makes sense, according to neocons.

                            If socialism is not the best thing to come along since Plato, then we would expect to see disillusioned leftists leave the communists and socialists for a conservative political stance. They were leaving behind the socialism, not smuggling socialist views into conservatism.

                            And I have to add that I am not a neocon (except for a period after 9-11 when everyone was a neocon), but I have great admiration for some neocon writers. Hey, anyone who warns about the unintended consequences of liberls' policies can't be all wrong.
                            Last edited by simplicio; 01-23-2020, 03:39 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              [ATTACH=CONFIG]42295[/ATTACH]
                              With regard to economic outcomes, socialism has historically done very well. It's the authoritarianism associated with one-party-state-communism implementations of non-democratic versions of socialism that have been historically problematic.

                              Russia and China were among the poorest countries in the world when they became socialist, the USSR quickly grew economically to be powerful enough to challenge the US for global dominance, and today China does the same. In recent decades the country with the fastest rate of economic growth in the world was democratic socialist Bolivia.

                              The historical downsides of socialist regimes have come if they abolished democracy and moved to a dictatorship. In those instances they've typically suffered the same sorts of problems common to dictatorships throughout history. In cases where they've kept to democratic socialism, it's been fine. The cartoon seems pretty ignorant of all the times it's worked fine.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                                With regard to economic outcomes, socialism has historically done very well. It's the authoritarianism associated with one-party-state-communism implementations of non-democratic versions of socialism that have been historically problematic.

                                Russia and China were among the poorest countries in the world when they became socialist, the USSR quickly grew economically to be powerful enough to challenge the US for global dominance, and today China does the same. In recent decades the country with the fastest rate of economic growth in the world was democratic socialist Bolivia.

                                The historical downsides of socialist regimes have come if they abolished democracy and moved to a dictatorship. In those instances they've typically suffered the same sorts of problems common to dictatorships throughout history. In cases where they've kept to democratic socialism, it's been fine. The cartoon seems pretty ignorant of all the times it's worked fine.
                                I think you have that a bit historically backwards. It was when China reformed to a more diversified economy in the 70s that they began to prosper. Same is true for Russia at the turn of the millennia. Socialism devastated Russia prior to that time.
                                "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by Sparko, Today, 09:35 AM
                                7 responses
                                51 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Started by CivilDiscourse, Yesterday, 06:39 PM
                                15 responses
                                109 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by seer, Yesterday, 02:30 PM
                                6 responses
                                45 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Started by whag, Yesterday, 02:17 PM
                                2 responses
                                27 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post whag
                                by whag
                                 
                                Started by Cow Poke, Yesterday, 01:58 PM
                                22 responses
                                97 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Working...
                                X