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The blue-state exodus gains momentum

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  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
    Can’t refute the point?
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

    Comment


    • Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
      I don't know the answers to most of your questions. As to this one, yes. California was the first or second state to pass a $15 minimum wage. California imposed several additional taxes on incomes > 250K in recent years etc.

      You don't like it here don't move here. But do keep taking our federal tax dollars. That hardly makes you look entitled and selfish.
      And the $15/hour wage has caused a lot of small businesses to close down. Which means the workers are making nothing. Which leads to less happiness for both the business owner and the worker.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        And the $15/hour wage has caused a lot of small businesses to close down. Which means the workers are making nothing. Which leads to less happiness for both the business owner and the worker.
        Oh, that must be why the unemployment rate is so low.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
          Oh, that must be why the unemployment rate is so low.
          Depends on the area JimL. I think forcing $15/hour is wrong and we have had the discussion before showing where businesses have closed because they lost customers when they had to raise their prices and couldn't afford to keep as many workers or any at all.

          I do think California needs a higher minimum wage than say Alabama. I think $15/hour from $7.25 is too high of a jump. They should have started with $10. Then gradually moved up.

          When you increase the minimum wage, you increase the cost of goods across the board, which in turn means your money buys less, so by increasing wages too much you either end up with unemployment or with people at the bottom who still can't afford anything more because everything has raised in cost.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
            What is a fair share is what our elected representatives decide is a fair share. That's why we elect them, they represent us, all of us, including the very wealthy.
            So if they decide yo pay 80% and I pay 0 it's fair? Maybe you're not getting the concept of 'fairness' because arbitrary decisions by others rarely result in fairness.

            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

            My Personal Blog

            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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            • Originally posted by JimL View Post
              What is a fair share is what our elected representatives decide is a fair share. That's why we elect them, they represent us, all of us, including the very wealthy.
              Then why do you liberals keep complaining that the rich aren't being taxed enough and how unfair it is?

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              • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                I’m sure he has more cash on hand, but you’re missing that there’s a difference between net worth, liquid net worth, and income. They are not all the same thing.
                LPoT do you really think I don't understand those things :)? I own real estate, stock, mutual funds etc. I live in California so I'm well familiar with the concept of "house rich, cash poor".

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                • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  And the $15/hour wage has caused a lot of small businesses to close down. Which means the workers are making nothing. Which leads to less happiness for both the business owner and the worker.
                  I agree it's a tricky issue.

                  The fact that the minimum wage is not just adjusted every year according to the cost of living seems manifestly unfair to me, however.

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                  • Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                    I agree it's a tricky issue.

                    The fact that the minimum wage is not just adjusted every year according to the cost of living seems manifestly unfair to me, however.
                    probably because it affects the cost of living. Raise the minimum wage and the workers get more money, but the places they work for have to pay more salaries, which mean they have to charge more for their goods, which means even though the worker is making more, everything is more expensive. So relatively speaking things stay the same.

                    When I was a teenager 40 years ago, minimum wage was around $3.35/hour. I had to have a roommate to afford an apartment which cost $225/month. Food cost me about $75-$150/month. Now the minimum wage is $7.25 here and the same type of apartment in the same area is running $500 month and food runs about $300 month. So relatively speaking the buying power of someone today in my area is about the same as it was 40 years ago.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                      LPoT do you really think I don't understand those things :)? I own real estate, stock, mutual funds etc. I live in California so I'm well familiar with the concept of "house rich, cash poor".
                      So why are you bringing up Jeff Bezos’ net worth, on a discussion of taxes and ‘fair share’, when net worth is irrelevant to the question of tax’s?
                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        Depends on the area JimL. I think forcing $15/hour is wrong and we have had the discussion before showing where businesses have closed because they lost customers when they had to raise their prices and couldn't afford to keep as many workers or any at all.

                        I do think California needs a higher minimum wage than say Alabama. I think $15/hour from $7.25 is too high of a jump. They should have started with $10. Then gradually moved up.

                        When you increase the minimum wage, you increase the cost of goods across the board, which in turn means your money buys less, so by increasing wages too much you either end up with unemployment or with people at the bottom who still can't afford anything more because everything has raised in cost.
                        Have you seen where some fast food restaurants are upping their management to six figures?
                        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          Have you seen where some fast food restaurants are upping their management to six figures?
                          say what? well if they can afford that then maybe they can pay $15/hour to flip a burger.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            say what? well if they can afford that then maybe they can pay $15/hour to flip a burger.
                            It's getting harder to find and recruit top management, so...

                            Taco Bell will try paying some managers $100,000 a year — but In-N-Out Burger already pays managers $160,000
                            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                              So why are you bringing up Jeff Bezos’ net worth, on a discussion of taxes and ‘fair share’, when net worth is irrelevant to the question of tax’s?
                              If people can accumulate wealth in the order > $100 billion of dollars tax free then that sounds like bug, not a feature (don't @ me about capital gains taxes, I know how this stuff works). I pay my fair share of taxes *now*. Am I glad I can make money "for free" by holding the stock I've been granted and then only pay 15% when I sell it down the line? Sure, I make out like a bandit that way. But if someone who doesn't work a job who gets stock grants asked me to justify it as fair I'd admit that I can't.

                              Serious question: Why are you so interested in defending people who make more money than you would in 1000+ lifetimes? They have advantages which we could only dream of having. They can ask for a phone call with the president *and get one*! I'm not talking about being fair to people who make as much as me or 10x as much as me. I'm talking someone who makes far more than 100x (it's much more than that but I don't want to out my salary) wha I make in a year in just *one hour*.

                              Look at my chart again. The 400 richest individuals are paying lower taxes than every other group and lower taxes than at any time in the past 70 years! If you can't intuitively see that that is unjust to the rest of us who actually have to compromise our standard of living to pay the taxes we owe then there's nothing I can say which will change your mind.

                              If I gave you $1 billion and asked you to spend it over your life without giving anything to charity or church can you even envision how you would do that? I have a good imagination and I can't even start to figure out what I'd do.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                probably because it affects the cost of living. Raise the minimum wage and the workers get more money, but the places they work for have to pay more salaries, which mean they have to charge more for their goods, which means even though the worker is making more, everything is more expensive. So relatively speaking things stay the same.

                                When I was a teenager 40 years ago, minimum wage was around $3.35/hour. I had to have a roommate to afford an apartment which cost $225/month. Food cost me about $75-$150/month. Now the minimum wage is $7.25 here and the same type of apartment in the same area is running $500 month and food runs about $300 month. So relatively speaking the buying power of someone today in my area is about the same as it was 40 years ago.
                                Do you agree we should index the minimum wage to cost of living / inflation? If not, what, in your mind, is the purpose of a minimum wage? To me the purpose is to allow *everyone* the chance to achieve a minimum acceptable standard of living, even those who don't have more valuable skills. Do you see things differently?

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