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Ukraine funding freeze and release timeline

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  • Ukraine funding freeze and release timeline

    In the interest of us all having a shared understanding of the sequence of events relating to the Ukraine defensive weapons funds being frozen and released I wanted to construct a simple timeline. I'm far from an expert in this so any and all feedback is welcome especially for important facts I've left out or points which some feel have not been demonstrated. I had at least one significant mistake in the earlier version in another thread so apologies for that if anyone was misled.
    1. Ukraine had met the requirements to release the aid.
      This happened first in June 2018 and then again in May 2019.
    2. During the July 25th phone call Trump asked for an investigation of the Bidens.
      JENNIFER WILLIAMS, AIDE TO U.S. VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: “I found the July 25th phone call unusual because, in contrast to other presidential calls I had observed, it involved discussion of what appeared to be a domestic political matter.”
    3. 90 minutes after the call the effort to freeze the aid began*.
      Article is on Business Insider, not a left wing publication.
    4. UKR takes no significant steps to effect the release of the aid**.
      I never heard of any steps they took. If anyone can point me to something they did do I would appreciate it.
      Arguments from silence are weak but it's clearly in the administration's interest to publicize steps UKR took, even small ones, to secure the release of the aid. This would not be an incidental detail.
    5. Lots of confusion among career officials about why the aid is being held and no clear answers given**.
      One example is this damning clip from Fiona Hill.
    6. Whisteblower complaint filed with Senator Burr.
      August 12.
    7. Meeting between Trump and his top advisors (Bolton, Pompeo, Esper) requesting that the aid be released.
      Sunday in late August so either the 24th or 31st.
      Linked article is to the Washington Examiner which is considered a conservative publication.
    8. Senator Ron Johnson calls Trump asking him to release aid.
      Article quotes Johnson as saying "I understand that most of President Trump's advisers wanted the military aid released,".
      August 31.
    9. The inspector general notifies the house of the Whisteblower complaint and deems it credible.
      “my determination of a credible urgent concern”
      September 9 !
    10. The aid is released on September 11.
    11. Trump reiterates his request for UKR (and China) to investigate the Bidens.
      October 4th.



    * accepted by Sparko for the sake of argument.
    ** Sparko raised concerns these were too speculative.

    BTW, in putting this together I found a much more thorough timeline than I could dream of here. I think the above captures what I consider the main points I am aware of but again, anything I missed is more than welcome.

  • #2
    Even if we accept this sequence as 100% accurate, it doesn't prove or even suggest that the President committed a crime.

    So... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      Even if we accept this sequence as 100% accurate, it doesn't prove or even suggest that the President committed a crime.

      So... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
      First things first. Do you accept it as accurate?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
        First things first. Do you accept it as accurate?
        For the sake of argument, sure.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #5
          this is why I didn't want to get into it with you in the other thread. Nothing I say makes a damn bit of difference to you, so why bother? I said the same thing MM did. Even if everything you list is true, it doesn't prove that Trump was extorting Zelensky for personal gain.

          You even admitted if Biden had used his authority to extort Ukraine to fire the prosecutor to protect Hunter, that he should be exposed and kept from running for President. So why isn't congress looking into this? Why isn't anyone but Trump trying to find the truth and why is Trump being castigated for the very same thing Biden admitted to on video?

          The whole thing stinks. And you don't care and don't listen, so why argue about it with you?

          Comment


          • #6
            Guys,

            If you aren't interested in this discussion, or only are interested if I can provide a smoking gun (and I can't) then let's just drop this. 100% no harm no foul. I had fun making the timeline and I think it speaks for itself. We can discuss something else like Biden firing the prosecutor (which I haven't done much research on myself so that could be interesting) or it doesn't have to be Trump or impeachment related. I'm not out to harsh anyone's mellow.

            If you are interested in discussing this then let's stipulate that we're going to try to search for what is the most likely explanation for the information we have. If that's not acceptable then, again, no harm no foul and we just move on.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
              I had fun making the timeline and I think it speaks for itself.
              Yes. It just doesn't say what you apparently want it to say.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Yes. It just doesn't say what you apparently want it to say.
                Real talk: Just give me a straight answer if you want to explore this topic or not. I won't draw any conclusions about the strength of your position if you say no, I just don't want to waste my time or yours.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I've said everything I care to say.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Even if we accept this sequence as 100% accurate, it doesn't prove or even suggest that the President committed a crime.

                    So... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
                    This is a timeline. Not a case for his criminal intent.
                    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                      Guys,

                      If you aren't interested in this discussion, or only are interested if I can provide a smoking gun (and I can't) then let's just drop this. 100% no harm no foul. I had fun making the timeline and I think it speaks for itself. We can discuss something else like Biden firing the prosecutor (which I haven't done much research on myself so that could be interesting) or it doesn't have to be Trump or impeachment related. I'm not out to harsh anyone's mellow.

                      If you are interested in discussing this then let's stipulate that we're going to try to search for what is the most likely explanation for the information we have. If that's not acceptable then, again, no harm no foul and we just move on.
                      It is helpful to have available. Thanks for doing it. I think there is more detail, and it might be a good starting point for a discussion of what are reasonable conlusions to draw from the testimony concerning what was happening around the events descripted in this timeline.
                      He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                      "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well I am outta here for now. Thanks DOb. Like you said, no harm no foul.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                          In the interest of us all having a shared understanding of the sequence of events relating to the Ukraine defensive weapons funds being frozen and released I wanted to construct a simple timeline. I'm far from an expert in this so any and all feedback is welcome especially for important facts I've left out or points which some feel have not been demonstrated. I had at least one significant mistake in the earlier version in another thread so apologies for that if anyone was misled.
                          1. Ukraine had met the requirements to release the aid.
                            This happened first in June 2018 and then again in May 2019.
                          2. During the July 25th phone call Trump asked for an investigation of the Bidens.
                            JENNIFER WILLIAMS, AIDE TO U.S. VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: “I found the July 25th phone call unusual because, in contrast to other presidential calls I had observed, it involved discussion of what appeared to be a domestic political matter.”
                          3. 90 minutes after the call the effort to freeze the aid began*.
                            Article is on Business Insider, not a left wing publication.
                          4. UKR takes no significant steps to effect the release of the aid**.
                            I never heard of any steps they took. If anyone can point me to something they did do I would appreciate it.
                            Arguments from silence are weak but it's clearly in the administration's interest to publicize steps UKR took, even small ones, to secure the release of the aid. This would not be an incidental detail.
                          5. Lots of confusion among career officials about why the aid is being held and no clear answers given**.
                            One example is this damning clip from Fiona Hill.
                          6. Whisteblower complaint filed with Senator Burr.
                            August 12.
                          7. Meeting between Trump and his top advisors (Bolton, Pompeo, Esper) requesting that the aid be released.
                            Sunday in late August so either the 24th or 31st.
                            Linked article is to the Washington Examiner which is considered a conservative publication.
                          8. Senator Ron Johnson calls Trump asking him to release aid.
                            Article quotes Johnson as saying "I understand that most of President Trump's advisers wanted the military aid released,".
                            August 31.
                          9. The inspector general notifies the house of the Whisteblower complaint and deems it credible.
                            “my determination of a credible urgent concern”
                            September 9 !
                          10. The aid is released on September 11.
                          11. Trump reiterates his request for UKR (and China) to investigate the Bidens.
                            October 4th.



                          * accepted by Sparko for the sake of argument.
                          ** Sparko raised concerns these were too speculative.

                          BTW, in putting this together I found a much more thorough timeline than I could dream of here. I think the above captures what I consider the main points I am aware of but again, anything I missed is more than welcome.
                          I think there's quite a few relevant events before the July 25 call that is worth mentioning. After Zelensky wins the election a campaign to smear and discredit Ambassador Yovanovitch begins. A Trump picked team takes over and operates via a back channel. Trumps team appears to be solely focused on getting the Ukrainians to announce investigations into the Bidens and 2016 election interference.

                          The story here appears to be that Trump had a channel to the previous Ukrainian administration through Giuliani and his association with Lutsenko. Zelensky winning meant a new connection had to be forged. It supports the deliberate creation of a back channel with the sole purpose of carrying out Trumps personal agenda.

                          Comment

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