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Transgender forces Kentucky to conform to their values

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  • Cere, he knows he's wrong - so he's playing dumb. Don't let it bother you - it's a fairly pathetic tactic.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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    • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
      Cere, he knows he's wrong - so he's playing dumb. Don't let it bother you - it's a fairly pathetic tactic.
      I think I have found what I was asking C123 about. This is interesting:
      ("faith") for the believer is "God's divine persuasion" – and therefore distinct from human belief (confidence), yet involving it. The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will (1 Jn 5:4).

      Unfortunately, this does not solve the problem of many religions which I started with.
      “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
      “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
      “not all there” - you know who you are

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      • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
        In that case I would defer judgment to medical experts. It is possible they are deluded and should not undergo HRT/SRS. It's also possible there's some other angle that caused their dysphoria.



        Can these variables you brought up alter their genes to produce these results?
        You can't alter someone's genes without using some sort of viral gene therapy or damage caused by something like radiation (which would affect some genes but not all of them in every cell and would basically destroy the person's dna, which is why radiation kills) - not only that, to somehow convert a male XY genome into an XX genome would mean actually creating genes that do not even exist in the original DNA.

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        • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          Cere, he knows he's wrong - so he's playing dumb. Don't let it bother you - it's a fairly pathetic tactic.
          Yup, although his reply on the subject last time it came up was probably even dumber. Comparing religion to smoking and alcohol addiction.

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          • Here's something really important that you didn't look at. having an enzymatic structure that is less sensitive is not a once and for all causation of something. It means that the testosterone receptor is simply less sensitive in this population. However it is not a congenital trigger.
            There are many males who undoubtedly show the same structure and are less sensitive to androgens yet choose to remain male. Which leaves the factor as another cause.
            No matter how many biological findings can be linked, the choice to be how you are born is a choice.
            I also get the funny sense that you are being intentionally dishonest about what constitutes an actual abnormality.

            A long chain vs a short chain receptor isn't considered abnormal by any stretch of the imagination in the medical field. Its considered a variation.
            A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
            George Bernard Shaw

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            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              You can't alter someone's genes without using some sort of viral gene therapy or damage caused by something like radiation (which would affect some genes but not all of them in every cell and would basically destroy the person's dna, which is why radiation kills) - not only that, to somehow convert a male XY genome into an XX genome would mean actually creating genes that do not even exist in the original DNA.
              Right. I don't understand Catholicity's objection. How would those variables make a difference in the study's findings?

              Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
              Here's something really important that you didn't look at. having an enzymatic structure that is less sensitive is not a once and for all causation of something. It means that the testosterone receptor is simply less sensitive in this population. However it is not a congenital trigger.
              There are many males who undoubtedly show the same structure and are less sensitive to androgens yet choose to remain male. Which leaves the factor as another cause.
              No matter how many biological findings can be linked, the choice to be how you are born is a choice.
              I also get the funny sense that you are being intentionally dishonest about what constitutes an actual abnormality.

              A long chain vs a short chain receptor isn't considered abnormal by any stretch of the imagination in the medical field. Its considered a variation.
              I'm not trained in medical matters. I approach these subjects as a layperson. So if I use medical terms outside of their definition, I would appreciate correction. What you say here seems to conflict with the study's finding of "statistically significantly different" variation in the CYP17 gene. Also, I don't understand what you mean by "No matter how many biological findings can be linked, the choice to be how you are born is a choice." Could you elaborate?

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              • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                Right. I don't understand Catholicity's objection. How would those variables make a difference in the study's findings?
                I think you misunderstood her. I dont see anywhere where she says anything about changing someone's genome. She is talking about hormone receptors (basically how effective different hormones are on a person's body)


                I'm not trained in medical matters. I approach these subjects as a layperson. So if I use medical terms outside of their definition, I would appreciate correction. What you say here seems to conflict with the study's finding of "statistically significantly different" variation in the CYP17 gene. Also, I don't understand what you mean by "No matter how many biological findings can be linked, the choice to be how you are born is a choice." Could you elaborate?
                From what I gather (not being a medical professional either) is that this gene has a lot of natural variations in how it is expressed and that affects how the hormones are used and how effective they are. And no matter what our genes do, they might AFFECT our behavior but it is still a choice.

                Take addiction for example. There are good indications that some people are more susceptible to addictive substances and behaviors than others, and it might have a genetic cause. But you can take a group of people who have the same addiction (say alcoholism) and you will find that some give in to their addiction, and others don't. We are not controlled by our hormones and genetics. We might be influenced by them, but how we choose to live is a decision we each have to make for ourselves. We can give in, or we can fight, or we can seek treatment. All that is up to us as sentient beings.

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                • Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                  Yup, although his reply on the subject last time it came up was probably even dumber. Comparing religion to smoking and alcohol addiction.
                  Teallaura is quite right. It is best not to talk to me or even read my posts unless you have a pretty thick skin. I can see that you get a little upset and that is not what either of us wants. With best wishes, ff.
                  “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                  “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                  “not all there” - you know who you are

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                  • Why don't you ever stop and realize that your so called "Judeo-Christian values" are being forced onto others and that others are forced to conform to it? I don't want to be forced to conform to your religious-based values. They have no legality in a secular democracy.
                    Blog: Atheism and the City

                    If your whole worldview rests on a particular claim being true, you damn well better have evidence for it. You should have tons of evidence.

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                    • Originally posted by The Thinker View Post
                      Why don't you ever stop and realize that your so called "Judeo-Christian values" are being forced onto others and that others are forced to conform to it? I don't want to be forced to conform to your religious-based values. They have no legality in a secular democracy.
                      So, will you work over Christmas then?
                      That's what
                      - She

                      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                      - Stephen R. Donaldson

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                      • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                        Teallaura is quite right. It is best not to talk to me or even read my posts unless you have a pretty thick skin. I can see that you get a little upset and that is not what either of us wants. With best wishes, ff.
                        Getting annoyed over inane stupidity has nothing to with having thick skin.

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                        • Originally posted by The Thinker View Post
                          Why don't you ever stop and realize that your so called "Judeo-Christian values" are being forced onto others and that others are forced to conform to it? I don't want to be forced to conform to your religious-based values. They have no legality in a secular democracy.
                          And why, pray tell, should I be forced to conform to your secular-based values?

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                          • Originally posted by The Thinker View Post
                            Why don't you ever stop and realize that your so called "Judeo-Christian values" are being forced onto others and that others are forced to conform to it? I don't want to be forced to conform to your religious-based values. They have no legality in a secular democracy.
                            Yes, which is a problem. Under Judeo-Christian values the West built the most powerful and prosperous civilizations man has ever seen. Under atheism...



                            It's obvious that from an atheist perspective atheism is a stupid, civilization destroying dysgenic factor and if I was an atheist I would fight as hard as I could to make atheism illegal and banish it from the public discourse. Of course the average atheist is best described as a severe narcissist who thinks that not only are his beliefs important but it's also important for others to share them no matter how much harm they cause, so atheists who do the right thing and say NO to atheism are pretty rare.
                            "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                            There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

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                            • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                              Getting annoyed over inane stupidity has nothing to with having thick skin.

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