Transgender forces Kentucky to conform to their values

[Bill the Cat]

Under what criteria?

A Y chromosome.

[Bill the Cat]

Sexual reassignment surgery is a cure for a disease.

About as much as a permanently installed iv bag of Jack Daniels is a cure for an alcoholic.

[Psychic Missile]

A Y chromosome.

That's a faulty criterion. What makes a human being a man or a woman depends upon a group of genes acting normally. If any of those genes acts abnormally, we can get a transgendered individual. We can also get someone with, for example, androgen insensitivity syndrome, where women have a Y chromosome but their body didn't develop like a man's.

About as much as a permanently installed iv bag of Jack Daniels is a cure for an alcoholic.

That's a terrible analogy.

[Catholicity]

No Sex reassignment surgery is not the cure for transgenderism. Especially when you have someone who does it, and then regrets it for any number of reasons. Transgenderism realistically is a complex form of body dysmorphia. The real cure is learning to accept who you are, even if the base line is the belief that you were born deformed. (note this is radically different from someone with any kind of hermaphroditism or excessive hormonal exposure)

[Psychic Missile]

No Sex reassignment surgery is not the cure for transgenderism. Especially when you have someone who does it, and then regrets it for any number of reasons. Transgenderism realistically is a complex form of body dysmorphia. The real cure is learning to accept who you are, even if the base line is the belief that you were born deformed. (note this is radically different from someone with any kind of hermaphroditism or excessive hormonal exposure)

Are you claiming that body dysmorphia is purely psychological? If so, why are you discounting biological causes, especially in light of studies finding brain differences?

[Bill the Cat]

That's a faulty criterion. What makes a human being a man or a woman depends upon a group of genes acting normally. If any of those genes acts abnormally, we can get a transgendered individual.

Then you'll have no problem producing the studies that show genetic anomalies that cause transgenderism...

We can also get someone with, for example, androgen insensitivity syndrome, where women have a Y chromosome but their body didn't develop like a man's.

Which is known to be caused by malfunctioning androgen receptor proteins produced by AR gene mutations. Even with cases of full female habitus, the patient is still considered a "genetic male".

That's a terrible analogy.

No it isn't. Both are facilitations of psychological flaws, not "cures".

[Psychic Missile]

Then you'll have no problem producing the studies that show genetic anomalies that cause transgenderism...

Sure. 1 2

Which is known to be caused by malfunctioning androgen receptor proteins produced by AR gene mutations. Even with cases of full female habitus, the patient is still considered a "genetic male".

Right. And their body and mind are female. Everything about them is female except for their Y chromosome.

No it isn't. Both are facilitations of psychological flaws, not "cures".

Then you'll have no problem producing the studies that show psychological flaws are the cause of transgenderism... You're fighting a losing battle. The biological differences between transgendered people's brains and cisgendered people's brains is well-tread medical history.

[Bill the Cat]

Sure. 1 2

Both of those studies were conducted post transition and after several years of hormone modification treatments. And neither calls their research a "cause", but a possible correlation. And all they really show are possible genetic links for their psychosis.

Right. And their body and mind are female. Everything about them is female except for their Y chromosome.

Then they are not female. They are males who express female features.

Then you'll have no problem producing the studies that show psychological flaws are the cause of transgenderism... You're fighting a losing battle. The biological differences between transgendered people's brains and cisgendered people's brains is well-tread medical history.

Sorry, but the brain studies are flawed. Brain development and growth is strongly influenced by environment.

Source: http://www.neuroscience.cam.ac.uk/research/cameos/GeneticBrain.php

It is now established in animal and human studies that some environmental events can induce long-term developmental changes in chromatin structure through various mechanisms such as histone de-acetylation and DNA methylation of non-coding sequences, which produce long-term silencing of transcription. Since most human brain development occurs post-natally, the brain more than any other organ is under strong social and environmental influences that can have long-lasting effects on brain function and wellbeing.

© Copyright Original Source

[Psychic Missile]

Both of those studies were conducted post transition and after several years of hormone modification treatments. And neither calls their research a "cause", but a possible correlation. And all they really show are possible genetic links for their psychosis.

Why would a transition/hormones matter? You are greatly understating the conclusions of the studies. Specific alleles related to sexual development were different in transexual individuals in such as way as one would expect them to be.

Then they are not female. They are males who express female features.

So people who have the bodies and minds of women should go into the men's room? It seems like you don't care about safety or privacy. You're just obstinately sticking to an arbitrary designator. The Y chromosome does not determine sex, genes on the Y chromosome do. If those genes work to make a person with XY chromosomes into a woman, the fact that she has a Y chromosome becomes irrelevant.

Sorry, but the brain studies are flawed. Brain development and growth is strongly influenced by environment.

Source: http://www.neuroscience.cam.ac.uk/research/cameos/GeneticBrain.php

It is now established in animal and human studies that some environmental events can induce long-term developmental changes in chromatin structure through various mechanisms such as histone de-acetylation and DNA methylation of non-coding sequences, which produce long-term silencing of transcription. Since most human brain development occurs post-natally, the brain more than any other organ is under strong social and environmental influences that can have long-lasting effects on brain function and wellbeing.

© Copyright Original Source

There's a few problems here. If your claim is that environment can change a person's brain to take the form of the opposite sex, you need to provide evidence, explain away David Reimer, and cede your argument that the condition is purely psychological.

[Epoetker]

Why is Psychic Missile breathlessly posting as though his points are actually going to matter? He doesn't know enough about genetics to draw any bright legal lines, he doesn't care enough about society to insist on people playing certain roles despite what they may feel, and insisting against environment as a primary factor in proclivities sexual or otherwise is rather unbecoming among the liberal Blank-Slate crowd. Did you actually have a coherent worldview at the end of all these declamations or are you just spinning your wheels for the sake of spinning your wheels?

[Sparko]

He is just spinning his wheels. The person in question of this thread is a biological male, with a male body and male body parts who just "identifies" as a woman. Basically a guy in drag.

He is not a transsexual, or has an strange genetic anomolies. It is entirely in his mind.

[Cerebrum123]

He is just spinning his wheels. The person in question of this thread is a biological male, with a male body and male body parts who just "identifies" as a woman. Basically a guy in drag.

He is not a transsexual, or has an strange genetic anomolies. It is entirely in his mind.

Don't forget that this guy has a girlfriend, and admits to being attracted to women.

[Catholicity]

Are you claiming that body dysmorphia is purely psychological? If so, why are you discounting biological causes, especially in light of studies finding brain differences?

Well now that's the thing about all mental illnesses. Everyone with a mental illness has a fundamental biological chemical alteration. So for the schizophrenic who here's voices in the head telling them to kill people the solution isn't to kill the solution is medication, psychiatry, hospitalization when needed. For Body Dysmorphia, the solution isn't excessive plastic surgery and allowing the person to go into debt and self destruct the body or starve themselves and/or enter the binge/purge cycle, even though there is a distinctive chemical issue in the brain telling them that something is imperfect or flawed. The solution relies in medication, behavioral therapy, cognition, DBT etc....ditto with Gender Disorders. The solution isn't to allow self-harm, the solution is to attempt therapy not "conversion" but correct the chemical issue first, now go and do therapy, but no one will do so. The only way that is allowed is in minor children and only certain types of psychologists are allowed to do so. Its a lacking field.

[nico]

Well now that's the thing about all mental illnesses. Everyone with a mental illness has a fundamental biological chemical alteration. So for the schizophrenic who here's voices in the head telling them to kill people the solution isn't to kill the solution is medication, psychiatry, hospitalization when needed. For Body Dysmorphia, the solution isn't excessive plastic surgery and allowing the person to go into debt and self destruct the body or starve themselves and/or enter the binge/purge cycle, even though there is a distinctive chemical issue in the brain telling them that something is imperfect or flawed. The solution relies in medication, behavioral therapy, cognition, DBT etc....ditto with Gender Disorders. The solution isn't to allow self-harm, the solution is to attempt therapy not "conversion" but correct the chemical issue first, now go and do therapy, but no one will do so. The only way that is allowed is in minor children and only certain types of psychologists are allowed to do so. Its a lacking field.

Mental illness and the fields of psychology and neurology are the very worst victims of Bonini's paradox. "Studies" and "research" are stooped in presupposition, especially in regards modern issues of gender and sexuality; the sheer complexity of it all leaves a wide birth for competing theories to make sense of it.

There are no universally accepted notions for what's normal or considered normal anymore. Homosexuality was an psychological disorder until the 70's. Strange how that happened at the heels of the divorce epidemic and free love movement.

What's happening now is no different. If we haven't allowed God the prerogative of defining these standards through the obvious medium of observable nature, then all that's left are abstract subjective ideas about human identity and desire. If God did not create things in a fixed order, then we are left with disorder and a random compilation of matter that happens to make up the human being, in which case we are free to define things however we feel or manipulate them however we want them to be.

A person can say all day long how transgenders/sexuals/vestites are normal until you see that dude in a dress with makeup and a wig strolling down the aisles of walmart freaking out your children. That will never be normal and should scare children. What snapped in that dudes mind that made him steal mommy's clothes and wear them. A mind moved to bizarre action like that is unstable.

[nico]

Don't forget that this guy has a girlfriend, and admits to being attracted to women.

Exactly. Unguided teenage boys will have every right to pretend gender confusion to meet their pubescent sexual urges by taking advantage of their access to the girls facilities. Tolerance has turned into invasion and violation. It's disturbing and quite perverse.