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On the politics of advancing Christian values

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  • On the politics of advancing Christian values

    From another thread the statement was made that no other president has done as well as putting forward Christian friendly policies as Trump.

    Jimmy Carter was a born again evangelical, even putting born again into American's vocabulary.

    Ronald Reagan was a divorced Hollywood star, with impressive credentials as an anticommunist and conservative.

    George Bush, the Senior, was seen as the successor to Reagan.

    Bill Clinton was from the Bible Belt and was swept into office with support from evangelicals, though he quickly lost trust of conservatives.

    George Bush campaigned on a compassionate conservatism, and was a born again Christian.

    Barak Obama was an exception to Americans' acceptance of Episcopalian politicians, his Christian credentials are rather unorthodox.

    Donald Trump, was never a friend of Christianity, yet quickly garnered support of Christians, and emerged from a wide field of candidates in the Republican primaries.
    What were the major issues important to Christians in these administrations, and how did they respond? Which ones were "successful" cultural warriors?

  • #2
    It's not quite your question, but as I look down that list and think how the average person in the street in my country thinks about those presidents and their religion and their actions, two in that list really stand out to me:

    * Bush Jr.
    He was quite well-known for his strong religious faith on the world stage. He was also quite well-known for running a torture program that tortured innocent people to death. I would say these things became associated in the minds of many people as a result of his presidency. So you could say his contribution was to cause people to associate evangelical Christianity with torturing people.

    * Trump
    He is well known internationally for his immorality (affairs, divorces, porn-stars, admitting sexual assault). He's also well-known for having extremely high levels of evangelical support compared to non-evangelicals. So, again, I think you could say his contribution internationally has been to associate sexual immorality with evangelical Christianity (and secondarily, also associating evangelical Christianity with racism, as the Build-a-Wall idea is perceived on the international stage in an un-nuanced fashion and assumed to be racism pure and simple).

    Of the list, Obama had by far the most positive international reputation and support, but he didn't emphasize his Christianity in office so the world as a whole didn't connect any specific action they saw him taking with his Christian views.
    Last edited by Starlight; 12-28-2019, 05:36 AM.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
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    • #3
      Originally posted by simplicio View Post


      Ronald Reagan was a divorced Hollywood star, with impressive credentials as an anticommunist and conservative.

      George Bush, the Senior, was seen as the successor to Reagan.

      Bill Clinton was from the Bible Belt and was swept into office with support from evangelicals, though he quickly lost trust of conservatives.
      So much for being "seen as the successor to Reagan."

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        It's not quite your question, but as I look down that list and think how the average person in the street in my country thinks about those presidents and their religion and their actions, two in that list really stand out to me:

        * Bush Jr.
        He was quite well-known for his strong religious faith on the world stage. He was also quite well-known for running a torture program that tortured innocent people to death. I would say these things became associated in the minds of many people as a result of his presidency. So you could say his contribution was to cause people to associate evangelical Christianity with torturing people.

        * Trump
        He is well known internationally for his immorality (affairs, divorces, porn-stars, admitting sexual assault). He's also well-known for having extremely high levels of evangelical support compared to non-evangelicals. So, again, I think you could say his contribution internationally has been to associate sexual immorality with evangelical Christianity (and secondarily, also associating evangelical Christianity with racism, as the Build-a-Wall idea is perceived on the international stage in an un-nuanced fashion and assumed to be racism pure and simple).

        Of the list, Obama had by far the most positive international reputation and support, but he didn't emphasize his Christianity in office so the world as a whole didn't connect any specific action they saw him taking with his Christian views.
        A question on the policies taken after 9-11: Were those policies imposed by an autocratic administration, or were they discussed and debated and had bipartisan support? And is there a correlation between policies enacted by a government and support for those policies among citizens?

        I remember the discussion on torture leading up to it, and have to admit that I saw some rationale (even a rationale consistent with my faith ) at the time. I have since changed my position. I see it as a position which had widespread support. McCain was the point man for opposing it, and got flak for it.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          So much for being "seen as the successor to Reagan."
          What do you mean?

          The Bush administration can be seen as an extension of Reagan's, making a twelve year administration.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by simplicio View Post
            What do you mean?

            The Bush administration can be seen as an extension of Reagan's, making a twelve year administration.
            If the elder Bush was legitimately seen as a successor of Reagan then the evangelicals and other conservatives would hardly have supported Clinton in the first place.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by simplicio View Post
              Ronald Reagan was a divorced Hollywood star, with impressive credentials as an anticommunist and conservative.
              Reagan was also a racist it was recently confirmed:

              https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-nixon/595102/

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                If the elder Bush was legitimately seen as a successor of Reagan then the evangelicals and other conservatives would hardly have supported Clinton in the first place.
                Bush lost conservative support for several reasons, the most important one being the "read my lips", no new taxes followed by a compromise with Dems to raise taxes.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by whag View Post
                  Reagan was also a racist it was recently confirmed:

                  https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-nixon/595102/
                  Not many individuals meet current standards for race views, even the highly regarded Sen Daniel Patrick Moynihan was disparaged by the set of tapes.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                    Not many individuals meet current standards for race views, even the highly regarded Sen Daniel Patrick Moynihan was disparaged by the set of tapes.
                    This is something people today can't understand. It was the culture. When I was a kid, and a black person came to the house for help, it was "use the BACK door", but then all the help needed was given. That would be seen today as incredibly racist, but it was universal (in the South) protocol.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                      Bush lost conservative support for several reasons, the most important one being the "read my lips", no new taxes followed by a compromise with Dems to raise taxes.
                      It wasn't so much a compromise as it was the Democrats had him over a barrel and forced him to agree to new taxes in exchange for necessary budget cuts, all so they could hurt any chance he had of reelection. I remember the media's reaction was almost gleeful in its reporting.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        This is something people today can't understand. It was the culture. When I was a kid, and a black person came to the house for help, it was "use the BACK door", but then all the help needed was given. That would be seen today as incredibly racist, but it was universal (in the South) protocol.
                        And still completely racist. No 'seen' about it. It was part of the embodiment of racism into southern, white, culture.
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          racism
                          What is that label supposed to stand for? Evil?
                          Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                            What is that label supposed to stand for? Evil?

                            Racism is evil, yes
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by whag View Post
                              Reagan was also a racist it was recently confirmed:

                              https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-nixon/595102/
                              Seems to be paywalled.
                              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

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                              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

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