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False Idol — Why the Christian Right Worships Donald Trump

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  • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    That's not worship. Ironic that you're calling MM ignorant while exposing your own ignorance.
    In fact, it's just the opposite. Laying on of hands implies flaws of the one whom they're laying hands on which necessitates that action.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by whag View Post
      If anything short of literally praying to someone or something isn’t worship, then you can’t say anything is worship. That invalidates the OP but also MM’s counterargument. The truth is that blind loyalty to any POTUS is somewhere in between. Since I regard all the presidents since Reagan cults of personality, then I’m not among this group.
      Well, alrighty then.
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      • Originally posted by seanD View Post
        In fact, it's just the opposite. Laying on of hands implies flaws of the one whom they're laying hands on which necessitates that action.
        Now we’re splitting hairs, as Jesus was baptized, which also implies flaws. Moreover, we’re not taking about LITERAL worship but bootlicking and fawning, which those televangelists definitely are, being hungry for power. You know that many of Trump’s followers are just that.

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        • Originally posted by whag View Post
          Moreover, you seem to think Trump is a refreshing maverick and progressive when he’s actually just being an open Mussolini-like demagogue, with that stupid name calling and retarded smirk. You worship both him and that approach.
          I don't really see much comparison between Mussolini and Trump outside of the fact liberals don't like them. Heck, even if we narrow ourselves down to "prime ministers of Italy within the last century" then Silvio Berlusconi is a far more apt choice.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by whag View Post
            Now we’re splitting hairs, as Jesus was baptized, which also implies flaws. Moreover, we’re not taking about LITERAL worship but bootlicking and fawning, which those televangelists definitely are, being hungry for power. You know that many of Trump’s followers are just that.
            Now you're just digging your ignorance hole even deeper. Baptism is not connected to redemption in the sense that it's a requirement for that. Baptism is a public symbolic act of obedience to God, a recognition of your atonement if you will. It's like wearing a wedding ring, which doesn't have any legal significance to marriage other than just a visible symbol of your devotion to another partner.
            Last edited by seanD; 12-09-2019, 07:24 PM.

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            • Originally posted by seanD View Post
              Now you're just digging your ignorance hole even deeper. Baptism is not connected to redemption in the sense that it's a requirement for that. Baptism is a public symbolic act of obedience to God, a recognition of your atonement if you will. It's like wearing a wedding ring, which doesn't have any legal significance to marriage other than just a visible symbol of your devotion to another partner.
              Then why do they baptise infants who have no idea what they're devoting themselves to?

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              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                Then why do they baptise infants who have no idea what they're devoting themselves to?
                Religious tradition? That doesn't mean tradition is always correct.

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                • Originally posted by seanD View Post
                  Religious tradition? That doesn't mean tradition is always correct.
                  So, your other explanation was wrong then?

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                  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    So, your other explanation was wrong then?
                    Where is it wrong? Laying on of hands is no more indicative of worship than Jesus being baptized is indicative of redemption from sin.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      Then why do they baptise infants who have no idea what they're devoting themselves to?
                      There are different views of baptism in the church in regards to its necessity and effectiveness for salvation. Everything from merely a symbol to you aren't saved without it.

                      Traditions that emphasise its necessity tend to practice infant baptism, those that emphasize its symbolic nature tend to practice baptism after confession of faith. This applies to those born into the faith. All churches baptize new converts after profession of faith.
                      Last edited by oxmixmudd; 12-09-2019, 09:22 PM.
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

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                      • Originally posted by seanD View Post
                        Where is it wrong? Laying on of hands is no more indicative of worship than Jesus being baptized is indicative of redemption from sin.
                        You are correct. But laying on of hands is very much associated with acceptance, approval, and blessing. And given Trumps overt lack of repentance and humility, and his abusive nature and behavior, it is not a very good message to send. The church h cant pass on such an overt and public message of approval to such a person, though its message of mercy and grace to those that do repent and seek forgiveness still applies. All are welcome, if they but repent their old ways and put on Christ.
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          You are correct. But laying on of hands is very much associated with acceptance, approval, and blessing. And given Trumps overt lack of repentance and humility, and his abusive nature and behavior, it is not a very good message to send. The church h cant pass on such an overt and public message of approval to such a person, though its message of mercy and grace to those that do repent and seek forgiveness still applies. All are welcome, if they but repent their old ways and put on Christ.
                          I agree that's it's silly and might even be inappropriate for Christians do get THAT involved in politics, but that's just my opinion. But they always do that to any Republican potus. They did it with Bush. There's nothing exceptional about it with Trump here. It's part of political tribalism, that's all it is.
                          Last edited by seanD; 12-09-2019, 09:42 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seanD View Post
                            I agree that's it's silly and might even be inappropriate for Christians do get THAT involved in politics, but that's just my opinion. But they always do that to any Republican potus. They did it with Bush. There's nothing exceptional about it with Trump here. It's part of political tribalism, that's all it is.
                            No surprise I'm sure, but I think trump crosses lines that dont allow for much ambiguity in terms of its inappropriateness.
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by whag View Post
                              You have to be blind and pig ignorant to not see televangelists literally laid hands on Trump and serve as his spiritual advisors.
                              ...
                              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              That's not worship. Ironic that you're calling MM ignorant while exposing your own ignorance.
                              Originally posted by whag View Post
                              If anything short of literally praying to someone or something isn’t worship, then you can’t say anything is worship. That invalidates the OP but also MM’s counterargument. ...
                              Originally posted by seanD View Post
                              In fact, it's just the opposite. Laying on of hands implies flaws of the one whom they're laying hands on which necessitates that action.
                              Originally posted by whag View Post
                              Now we’re splitting hairs, as Jesus was baptized, which also implies flaws. Moreover, we’re not taking about LITERAL worship but bootlicking and fawning, which those televangelists definitely are, being hungry for power. You know that many of Trump’s followers are just that.
                              I have mixed views of that event, not least the fact that it was used as a photo-op. Laying on hands is a legitimate practice in Scripture, serving various purposes from healing to blessing to ordaining to ministry or leadership. I'm concerned that the "blessing" (fine and dandy) and the "ordaining" (not cool) aspects could get confounded.

                              But I really don't see it as akin to "worship."
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                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                                I have mixed views of that event, not least the fact that it was used as a photo-op. Laying on hands is a legitimate practice in Scripture, serving various purposes from healing to blessing to ordaining to ministry or leadership. I'm concerned that the "blessing" (fine and dandy) and the "ordaining" (not cool) aspects could get confounded.

                                But I really don't see it as akin to "worship."
                                Let’s just all agree that neither Trumpers nor Obama supporters LITERALLY worshipped either president. OP is a veiled troll and MM is just being a mini version of POTUS himself. All Presidents have their bootlicking supporters who see no wrong in what their POTUS does politically. MM appears to be that kind of Trump defender—more like a Kelley Anne Conway than an Anne Coulter. I’ve seen nothing in MM’s defenses of Trump that suggest anything otherwise. He has completely bought his bill of goods. That’s serious delusion, even if he doesn’t “worship” the dude.

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