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False Idol — Why the Christian Right Worships Donald Trump

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  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    The veneration of Obama went far beyond what you laughably call "fawning" and "bootlicking". People getting excited at a Trump rally (which I've never attended), or pushing back against the endless false accusations (which I have done) is not even in the same league as Democrats describing Obama using Messianic language.
    See that’s what I mean: “endless false investigations.” You saw the Clinton camp do exactly this with Starr and Whitewater, even though there was definitely shady crap going on at the Rose law firm. That nothing came of it was dems opportunity to gloat about persecution and false allegations, but there were legit points to investigate. They just couldn’t prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

    You’re a Trump bootlicker and fawner and have been from day one, crying the inverse of “vast right wing conspiracy” from the beginning. At the very least, you could be honest about Trump shooting himself in the foot and wasting time, money, and energy. He could have skated easily and been somewhat accomplished and dignified sans Comey and now this. EASILY.

    Even O’Bannon and John Kelley who famously supported him for years called Trump reckless. You just fawn because you think he’s a maverick progressive who Has done nothing wrong politically and has never lied in office. Show me where you haven’t, and I’ll rescind. Cite the posts.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by whag View Post
      See that’s what I mean: “endless false investigations.”
      I said false accusations, but I suppose "false investigations" works, too. I mean, look at present circumstances where Democrats are racing towards impeachment without ever explicitly defining what crimes Trump has supposedly committed and even saying that he can be impeached for lawful acts done with the "wrong" motives! Even someone politically opposed to Trump can admit that Democrats are off the rails on this one.
      Last edited by Mountain Man; 12-10-2019, 09:27 AM.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • Originally posted by seer View Post
        No Jim, he believed his own hype, he was after all the ONE...
        No seer. That phrase means that his goal would be to make a serious turn in the effect of global warming and hopefully that effort would continue after him.

        That he thought highly of his capacity to accomplish that goal should not bother you given who you now support.

        Further, at least Obama had the sense to know it was his collective team that would do the thing, and not him alone.
        Last edited by oxmixmudd; 12-10-2019, 09:14 AM.
        He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

        "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by whag View Post
          It as overtly religious, but it didn’t constitute literal worship of Obama. If fawning/bootlicking is tantamount to “worship,” then it’s easy to argue MM and the type of people who attend Trump rallies “worship” Trump.

          Actually, a great deal of it was downright blasphemous.


          Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            There are different views of baptism in the church in regards to its necessity and effectiveness for salvation. Everything from merely a symbol to you aren't saved without it.

            Traditions that emphasise its necessity tend to practice infant baptism, those that emphasize its symbolic nature tend to practice baptism after confession of faith. This applies to those born into the faith. All churches baptize new converts after profession of faith.
            I believe the bible says that baptism is a necessity for salvation, but I understand that for some reason there are contradictory views on this so your explanation makes sense. Thanks.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
              I believe the bible says that baptism is a necessity for salvation...
              Obviously not. Otherwise Jesus lied to the thief on the cross.

              According to Romans 10:9, "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." That's the only requirement for salvation.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                I believe the bible says that baptism is a necessity for salvation, but I understand that for some reason there are contradictory views on this so your explanation makes sense. Thanks.
                It's mostly a Catholic/Protestant thing. The Sacraments Baptism and the Lord's supper take on different characteristics in the two, with them being required in Catholicism, and Protestants tending in various degrees towards grace alone, implying no works, even partaking of the sacraments, are required explicitly for salvation.

                But there is some variation in Protestantism, with Church of Christ being an example of a tradition that is fairly hard line on Baptism being required.

                I'm making the point only to say a person with a Christian background that is no longer a believer can have different notions of what Christians believe about such things without being ignorant of the elements of Christian faith as they practiced it. Different traditions do teach differently on these topics.
                He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  Obviously not. Otherwise Jesus lied to the thief on the cross.

                  According to Romans 10:9, "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." That's the only requirement for salvation.
                  MM - this is a typical protestant (baptist/pentacostal) interpretation. the RCC teaches very differnently, as does the Protestant Church of Christ - With the most prominent supporting verse being:

                  Source: 1 peter 3:21

                  The like figure [Noahs flood and the ark: sic] whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

                  © Copyright Original Source



                  This has been debated for Millenia. We actually agree in terms of how we interpret this, but that doesn't mean Christian tradition as a whole is settled on the issue, or that traditions that teach differently than what you and I believe about it are necessarily wrong, or not themselves Christian.
                  He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                  "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                    MM - this is a typical protestant (baptist/pentacostal) interpretation. the RCC teaches very differnently, as does the Protestant Church of Christ - With the most prominent supporting verse being:

                    Source: 1 peter 3:21

                    The like figure [Noahs flood and the ark: sic] whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

                    © Copyright Original Source



                    This has been debated for Millenia. We actually agree in terms of how we interpret this, but that doesn't mean Christian tradition as a whole is settled on the issue, or that traditions that teach differently than what you and I believe about it are necessarily wrong, or not themselves Christian.
                    1 Peter says that baptism is a saving act and not that it is necessary for salvation.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      1 Peter says that baptism is a saving act and not that it is necessary for salvation.
                      Name another saving act that isn’t necessary for salvation. Explain how it saves.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        1 Peter says that baptism is a saving act and not that it is necessary for salvation.
                        MM - I'm not debating whether or not you should read that verse in a specific way. My point is that other Christian traditions read it differently. Are you going to claim any Christian tradition that understands this verse to imply the sacrement of Baptism is required is not Christian? If not, then there is nothing more to say, because all I'm doing is pointing out there is more than one understanding of that verse within the Christian faith. If so, then you exclude a very large part of Christendom from being 'Christian'.


                        Jim
                        He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                        "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          MM - I'm not debating whether or not you should read that verse in a specific way. My point is that other Christian traditions read it differently. Are you going to claim any Christian tradition that understands this verse to imply the sacrement of Baptism is required is not Christian? If not, then there is nothing more to say, because all I'm doing is pointing out there is more than one understanding of that verse within the Christian faith. If so, then you exclude a very large part of Christendom from being 'Christian'.


                          Jim
                          He has no problem with that.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by whag View Post
                            Wow, you put a lot of work into that. Thanks for proving no one literally worshipped Obama and that black people (and many liberal whites) had the tendency to be exultant at having an African American in the WH—something most of the population literally thought was impossible given the history of America.

                            Obama turned out to be just another snake like Clinton and Bush 2, and now Trump to an enormous degree (who debased the national discourse like no one before him) but I don’t blame African Americans for being excited about Obama’s election even to the point of comic apotheosis.
                            Yeah, they just praised him as a messiah and declared he was equivalent to if not greater than Jesus and is a god. No worship there

                            Oh, and a lot of those on bended knee showering their Obamessiah with adoration are definitely not black such as Evan Thomas, Chris Matthews, Ezra Klein, Mark Morford, Barbara Walters, Michael D'Antuono, Angelo Cruciani, Jonathan Alter, Dave Stewart, Jason Alexander, Margaret Cho and Joan Baez. A few others I have no idea what their race may be.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                              It's just another one of rogue's zillion paragraphs of cherry-picked quotes, which he thinks makes for an unbeatable argument. It's endearing really.
                              I have to admit that I do enjoy how you grumble about how much evidence is presented. No wonder you're such a fan of this evidence-free impeachment, no messy evidence to muck things up.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • I think more people think Trump is the devil rather than a god.

                                Comment

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