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Nunes sues CNN over 'demonstrably false' Ukraine report

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    You're uninformed. Read the link Cow Poke helpfully provided if you want the real facts, but the short version is the whole thing started because of an actual crime: the Watergate break-in. This was followed by arrests and convictions through which hard evidence was discovered that led straight back to the Oval Office. This prompted the Senate to appoint a special prosecutor who uncovered even more damning evidence, including public testimony from firsthand witnesses that Nixon had orchestrated the break-in, was involved in a cover-up, and that he had personally bribed the Watergate "burglars" to keep their mouths shut. It was around this time that Nixon attempted to have the special prosecutor fired. It was only then, after it was clear that Nixon was deeply involved in criminal activity, that there were calls for his impeachment.

    Contrast this with Mueller being appointed to investigate Trump without a crime ever having been committed!
    The question was when did impeachment start, the answer is that it began when, and as a result of, the Saturday night Massacre, i.e. after Nixon fired his Atty Gen. et al. for not firing the special prosecutor Archibald Cox.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by JimL View Post
      The impeachment inquiry started with the Saturday night massacre, when Nixon fired his Attorney general et. al. for not firing the special prosecutor.
      But the whole thing was triggered by an actual undeniable incontestable CRIME.
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by whag View Post
        Well it’s not like Trump didn’t demand loyalty of Comey, ask him to exonerate Flynn, and then fire him after Comey (way too politely) rebuffed POTUS for such reckless asks. That wasn’t suspicious at all.
        That's the fake news version at any rate. Trump never demanded Comey's loyalty, and he didn't ask him to exonerate Flynn. What he said was he hoped the FBI would be able to clear Flynn, which even Comey admitted in his public hearing was not an order or even a request even though he said he assumed it was one.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          That's the fake news version at any rate. Trump never demanded Comey's loyalty, and he didn't ask him to exonerate Flynn. What he said was he hoped the FBI would be able to clear Flynn, which even Comey admitted in his public hearing was not an order or even a request even though he said he assumed it was one.
          Trump’s hopes for FBI “loyalty” and the clearing of “good man“ Flynn are totally inappropriate in a first meeting with FBI director, and you know it. Trump knew about Comey before that meeting and was testing him. When Comey failed the test, he was fired. It was Trump’s first shot in the foot.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            But the whole thing was triggered by an actual undeniable incontestable CRIME.
            Sure, but that wasn't the assertion, the assertion by you was that the impeachment started due to that crime, i.e. to the Watergate break-in.. It wasn't. It began in response to Nixon's ordering and then firing of the Attorney General for his refusal to fire the special prosecutor, an act that Trump himself committed. In other words it wasn't in response to the actual crime that the Impeachment inquiry began, it was in response to the presidents obstruction and attempt to cover-up the crime. So, by precedent alone, the ordering of, and the firing of, Jeff Sessions for refusing to carry out that order to fire the special prosecutor, along with the continued obstruction of Congress was reason enough to begin an impeachment inquiry into Trump.
            Last edited by JimL; 12-06-2019, 10:59 PM.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by JimL View Post
              Sure, but that wasn't the assertion, the assertion by you was that the impeachment started due to that crime, i.e. to the Watergate break-in.. It wasn't. It began in response to Nixon's ordering and then firing of the Attorney General for his refusal to fire the special prosecutor, an act that Trump himself committed. In other words it wasn't in response to the actual crime that the Impeachment inquiry began, it was in response to the presidents obstruction and attempt to cover-up the crime. So, by precedent alone, the ordering of, and the firing of, Jeff Sessions for refusing to carry out that order to fire the special prosecutor, along with the continued obstruction of Congress was reason enough to begin an impeachment inquiry into Trump.
              Just like a liberal to try to slip out on a technicality. If there hadn't been the crime, there would not have been the need for a coverup.

              The fact is that the whole Nixon thing can be tied to an actual crime that was undeniable. They didn't have to go looking for a crime, or using their wild imaginations to invent a crime, or have focus groups help them figure out what to call it, or have a session with activist lawyers to try to help them figure out what the Constitution says.
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by whag View Post
                Trump’s hopes for FBI “loyalty” and the clearing of “good man“ Flynn are totally inappropriate in a first meeting with FBI director, and you know it. Trump knew about Comey before that meeting and was testing him. When Comey failed the test, he was fired. It was Trump’s first shot in the foot.
                Yep, I believe that "I hope you can let this thing go" were the words Trump put to Comey regarding Flynn. Comey didn't comply and Trump made sure to get rid of him once he realized Comey was a principled man and wouldn't succumb to his pressure. Then he met with the Russians in the oval office where they had a good laugh together; Trump telling them that the pressure with the Russian thing was gone now because he got rid of Comey.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Just like a liberal to try to slip out on a technicality. If there hadn't been the crime, there would not have been the need for a coverup.

                  The fact is that the whole Nixon thing can be tied to an actual crime that was undeniable. They didn't have to go looking for a crime, or using their wild imaginations to invent a crime, or have focus groups help them figure out what to call it, or have a session with activist lawyers to try to help them figure out what the Constitution says.
                  Doesn't matter if there was an actual crime prior to the crime of obstruction or not, the impeachment of Nixon was begun because of the obstruction. And in Trumps case, obstruction of an investigation into an alleged crime is not only illegal, and highly problematic with respect to the Constitution and the Congressional resposibility to uphold it, but it also implicates the obstructor of having committed a crime.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    Doesn't matter
                    Your way of not admitting you were wrong by trying to change the narrative.

                    if there was an actual crime prior to the crime of obstruction or not,
                    Jim, that's just nutty -- you can't find any account of Nixon's impeachment (attempt) that doesn't start with Watergate.

                    the impeachment of Nixon was begun because of the obstruction.
                    Because there was an actual crime that was absolutely undeniable.

                    And in Trumps case, obstruction of an investigation into an alleged crime is not only illegal, and highly problematic with respect to the Constitution and the Congressional resposibility to uphold it, but it also implicates the obstructor of having committed a crime.
                    This is why you have to keep pretending that Nixon's impeachment (attempt) wasn't triggered by an actual crime. A REAL crime. A crime nobody disputes happened, or what it was.

                    No account of Richard Nixon glosses over the fact that his downfall began with the actual crime of the break-in. An actual REAL crime, not an alleged one.
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Your way of not admitting you were wrong by trying to change the narrative.



                      Jim, that's just nutty -- you can't find any account of Nixon's impeachment (attempt) that doesn't start with Watergate.



                      Because there was an actual crime that was absolutely undeniable.



                      This is why you have to keep pretending that Nixon's impeachment (attempt) wasn't triggered by an actual crime. A REAL crime. A crime nobody disputes happened, or what it was.

                      No account of Richard Nixon glosses over the fact that his downfall began with the actual crime of the break-in. An actual REAL crime, not an alleged one.
                      There is an actual crime here as well, a real one, even if you are incapable of admitting to it.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        There is an actual crime here as well, a real one, even if you are incapable of admitting to it.
                        Jim, I'm just going to let you wallow in your folly on this. Anybody with half a brain would recognize there's no comparison to the absolutely undeniable proven established historically recognized crime that launched the Nixon impeachment ---- and the Democrats' current impeachment circus in search of a crime.

                        Please continue your echo chamber bubble talk without me.
                        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
                          Yep, I believe that "I hope you can let this thing go" were the words Trump put to Comey regarding Flynn. Comey didn't comply and Trump made sure to get rid of him once he realized Comey was a principled man and wouldn't succumb to his pressure. Then he met with the Russians in the oval office where they had a good laugh together; Trump telling them that the pressure with the Russian thing was gone now because he got rid of Comey.
                          RISCH: Thank you. All right. So those three things we now know regarding the active measures, whether the president is under investigation and the collusion between the trump campaign and the Russians. I want to drill right down, as my time is limited, to the most recent dust up regarding allegations that the president of the United States obstructed justice. Boy, you nailed this down on page 5, paragraph 3. You put this in quotes. Words matter. You wrote down the words so we can all have the words in front of us now. There's 28 words now in quotes. It says, quote, I hope -- this is the president speaking — I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is good guy. I hope you can let this go. Now, those are his exact words, is that correct.

                          COMEY: Correct.

                          RISCH: You wrote them here and put them in quotes.

                          COMEY: Correct.

                          RISCH: Thank you for that. He did not direct you to let it go?

                          COMEY: Not in his words, no.

                          RISCH: He did not order you to let it go?

                          COMEY: Again, those words are not an order.

                          RISCH: He said, I hope. Now, like me, you probably did hundreds of cases, maybe thousands of cases, charging people with criminal offenses and, of course, you have knowledge of the thousands of cases out there where people have been charged. Do you know of any case where a person has been charged for obstruction of justice or, for that matter, any other criminal offense, where they said or thought they hoped for an outcome?

                          COMEY: I don't know well enough to answer. The reason I keep saying his words is I took it as a direction.

                          RISCH: Right.

                          COMEY: I mean, this is a president of the United States with me alone saying I hope this. I took it as, this is what he wants me to do. I didn't obey that, but that's the way I took it.

                          RISCH: You may have taken it as a direction but that's not what he said.

                          COMEY: Correct.

                          RISCH: He said, I hope.

                          COMEY: Those are his exact words, correct.

                          RISCH: You don't know of anyone ever being charged for hoping something, is that a fair statement?

                          COMEY: I don't as I sit here.

                          https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...stimony-239295
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            RISCH: Thank you. All right. So those three things we now know regarding the active measures, whether the president is under investigation and the collusion between the trump campaign and the Russians. I want to drill right down, as my time is limited, to the most recent dust up regarding allegations that the president of the United States obstructed justice. Boy, you nailed this down on page 5, paragraph 3. You put this in quotes. Words matter. You wrote down the words so we can all have the words in front of us now. There's 28 words now in quotes. It says, quote, I hope -- this is the president speaking — I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is good guy. I hope you can let this go. Now, those are his exact words, is that correct.

                            COMEY: Correct.

                            RISCH: You wrote them here and put them in quotes.

                            COMEY: Correct.

                            RISCH: Thank you for that. He did not direct you to let it go?

                            COMEY: Not in his words, no.

                            RISCH: He did not order you to let it go?

                            COMEY: Again, those words are not an order.

                            RISCH: He said, I hope. Now, like me, you probably did hundreds of cases, maybe thousands of cases, charging people with criminal offenses and, of course, you have knowledge of the thousands of cases out there where people have been charged. Do you know of any case where a person has been charged for obstruction of justice or, for that matter, any other criminal offense, where they said or thought they hoped for an outcome?

                            COMEY: I don't know well enough to answer. The reason I keep saying his words is I took it as a direction.

                            RISCH: Right.

                            COMEY: I mean, this is a president of the United States with me alone saying I hope this. I took it as, this is what he wants me to do. I didn't obey that, but that's the way I took it.

                            RISCH: You may have taken it as a direction but that's not what he said.

                            COMEY: Correct.

                            RISCH: He said, I hope.

                            COMEY: Those are his exact words, correct.

                            RISCH: You don't know of anyone ever being charged for hoping something, is that a fair statement?

                            COMEY: I don't as I sit here.

                            https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...stimony-239295
                            Trump should have been charged with obstruction of justice right then and there.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              This is why you have to keep pretending that Nixon's impeachment (attempt) wasn't triggered by an actual crime. A REAL crime. A crime nobody disputes happened, or what it was.

                              No account of Richard Nixon glosses over the fact that his downfall began with the actual crime of the break-in. An actual REAL crime, not an alleged one.
                              And there was a clear and direct line of evidence from that crime to the president, including testimony from multiple firsthand witnesses and tape recordings of Nixon himself.

                              Contrast that to the Democrat case against Trump based on contradictory hearsay and guesswork.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
                                Trump should have been charged with obstruction of justice right then and there.
                                For what? Not giving Comey an order?
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

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