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Little Greta comes clean

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    Because banning plastic straws has helped so much.
    Speaking of which.... we were in a restaurant the other day where they provided some really weird paper/cardboard straws... I don't use a straw in tea or water, but my wife does, and she pointed it out....

    These straws stick to your lips when you drink! Our waitress overheard her telling me that, and said, "nobody likes them, but they're environmentally friendly".
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Speaking of which.... we were in a restaurant the other day where they provided some really weird paper/cardboard straws... I don't use a straw in tea or water, but my wife does, and she pointed it out....

      These straws stick to your lips when you drink! Our waitress overheard her telling me that, and said, "nobody likes them, but they're environmentally friendly".
      Paper is anything but "environmentally friendly"

      Sure it decomposes easily enough, but paper mills are one of the largest polluters on the planet. They use caustic chemicals and bleaches to break down the wood fibers, for one. And have traditionally dumped those chemicals into the environment. Not to mention deforestation in many parts of the world. Even recycling paper causes a lot of pollution.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        Paper is anything but "environmentally friendly"

        Sure it decomposes easily enough, but paper mills are one of the largest polluters on the planet. They use caustic chemicals and bleaches to break down the wood fibers, for one. And have traditionally dumped those chemicals into the environment. Not to mention deforestation in many parts of the world. Even recycling paper causes a lot of pollution.
        It's similar to the electric car paradox which depend on rare metals from strip mines and a toxic manufacturing process to produce the batteries.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          Because banning plastic straws has helped so much.
          When seer can make ya look bad, you're not looking good.

          Originally posted by seer View Post
          A lot more nuclear and natural gas would be a start. And more investment in technologies like: https://www.cnet.com/news/this-co2-m...limate-change/
          Find me a civilian who could play Uncle Hymie and I'd be a lot more comfortable boosting civilian nuclear plants. There are indirect costs, too. Mine tailings make their way into every brick house in Denver. Like fracking for natural gas, though, it's better than coal, but short of the brass ring.

          Have you driven through east Texas lately?

          I drove to San Antonio from Miami through New Orleans for the nephew's boot graduation at Lackland a coupla years back. Coming up I-10, it was windmills horizon to horizon from Beaumont to Houston, and not much thinner all the way into San Antonio. And that's just wind. The government owns 90 percent of Nevada outright. Vegas gets a baker's dozen thunderstorms a year. That's a lot of sunshine going to waste.

          There's a lot more that could be done if we were willing to treat it like a Manhattan Project emergency. In '79, Jerry Pournelle, the sci-fi writer, was talking about solar farms in orbit beaming power back via microwave lasers at a gee-whiz efficiency factor higher than anything ground-based. And bonus, it never rains out there, and the sun never goes down, either. That was an off-the-shelf solution in 1979. I think we might maybe be able to do better than that, today.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
            When seer can make ya look bad, you're not looking good.



            Find me a civilian who could play Uncle Hymie and I'd be a lot more comfortable boosting civilian nuclear plants. There are indirect costs, too. Mine tailings make their way into every brick house in Denver. Like fracking for natural gas, though, it's better than coal, but short of the brass ring.
            Well France is doing OK with nuclear, it can be done safely. And natural gas has helped to the US reduce emissions. They are necessary, even if they are merely stop gap measures.

            Have you driven through east Texas lately?

            I drove to San Antonio from Miami through New Orleans for the nephew's boot graduation at Lackland a coupla years back. Coming up I-10, it was windmills horizon to horizon from Beaumont to Houston, and not much thinner all the way into San Antonio. And that's just wind. The government owns 90 percent of Nevada outright. Vegas gets a baker's dozen thunderstorms a year. That's a lot of sunshine going to waste.
            Well in New England where I live solar is not a good option. Wind is questionable, though we are building more wind mills in the Atlantic. Listen, most people don't care where they get their power from, they do care if their rates triple.

            There's a lot more that could be done if we were willing to treat it like a Manhattan Project emergency. In '79, Jerry Pournelle, the sci-fi writer, was talking about solar farms in orbit beaming power back via microwave lasers at a gee-whiz efficiency factor higher than anything ground-based. And bonus, it never rains out there, and the sun never goes down, either. That was an off-the-shelf solution in 1979. I think we might maybe be able to do better than that, today.
            And that really won't do jack unless you get China, India and Africa on board. But I have no problem with investing in promising technologies.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
              When seer can make ya look bad, you're not looking good.



              Find me a civilian who could play Uncle Hymie and I'd be a lot more comfortable boosting civilian nuclear plants. There are indirect costs, too. Mine tailings make their way into every brick house in Denver. Like fracking for natural gas, though, it's better than coal, but short of the brass ring.

              Have you driven through east Texas lately?

              I drove to San Antonio from Miami through New Orleans for the nephew's boot graduation at Lackland a coupla years back. Coming up I-10, it was windmills horizon to horizon from Beaumont to Houston, and not much thinner all the way into San Antonio. And that's just wind. The government owns 90 percent of Nevada outright. Vegas gets a baker's dozen thunderstorms a year. That's a lot of sunshine going to waste.

              There's a lot more that could be done if we were willing to treat it like a Manhattan Project emergency. In '79, Jerry Pournelle, the sci-fi writer, was talking about solar farms in orbit beaming power back via microwave lasers at a gee-whiz efficiency factor higher than anything ground-based. And bonus, it never rains out there, and the sun never goes down, either. That was an off-the-shelf solution in 1979. I think we might maybe be able to do better than that, today.
              And the environmentalists are against nuclear power.



              As far as beaming power from space, I am sure they would find something to complain about there too. Maybe the beams would fry birds flying through them, or they would be heating up the atmosphere. Who knows? I can't believe such a system would be all that efficient either despite any sci-fi claims.

              Wind turbines themselves have problems. They take up a lot of space, and there appears to be a problem getting rid of old blades.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                And the environmentalists are against nuclear power.



                As far as beaming power from space, I am sure they would find something to complain about there too. Maybe the beams would fry birds flying through them, or they would be heating up the atmosphere. Who knows? I can't believe such a system would be all that efficient either despite any sci-fi claims.

                Wind turbines themselves have problems. They take up a lot of space, and there appears to be a problem getting rid of old blades.
                Wind turbines are also destroying bird populations, and there's the considerable issue of low frequency noise causing health problems for anybody living within a mile of a wind farm.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  Wind turbines themselves have problems. They take up a lot of space, and there appears to be a problem getting rid of old blades.

                  I saw a "MEGA" series special (Mega Buildings, etc) on these wind turbines, and how much more maintenance was involved in keeping them running than anybody had ever suspected.
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    I saw a "MEGA" series special (Mega Buildings, etc) on these wind turbines, and how much more maintenance was involved in keeping them running than anybody had ever suspected.
                    75472824_2888893194475573_3259258588522086400_n.jpg

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                    • #55
                      My friend's son works in the maintenance of windturbines and he says it's horrendous. And dangerous work.


                      Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        Despite your lampooning the idea, yeah. "Communist" is perhaps going a bit far, though in practice socialism and communism aren't especially distinguishable. Maybe you could point me to all the devout environmentalists who aren't advocating massive government intervention and control to improve the environment.
                        And keep in mind what someone who was in a position to know had to say about this:

                        "The goal of socialism is communism." - Vladimir Lenin


                        But he's just some right wing extremist who sees commies behind every tree







                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                          Maybe a bit too far.

                          Uh, yeah ... the point being no thread with folks ranting about communists and watermelons has any business calling anyone else out for starting a fight, with the additional point that it shouldn't need a lampoonist to make that point.

                          Ya should have seen that before you posted, piglet.

                          And you should abandon it entirely in the sequel.


                          I would love to see a debate, instead, about how we should improve the environment in the face of global warming. Maybe you could point me to the sober, conservative alternatives to massive government intervention that are more likely to address the crisis. And no, simply denying it's a crisis is not a solution, certainly not sober, and arguably not conservative, either.

                          That shouldn't be a point I need to make, either.
                          This may be hard for you to wrap your mind around considering how calcified it is becoming but I never said she was a watermelon environmentalist but asked the question whether she could be considered one (hence the question mark which for most people is sufficient to clue them in).

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            Paper is anything but "environmentally friendly"

                            Sure it decomposes easily enough, but paper mills are one of the largest polluters on the planet. They use caustic chemicals and bleaches to break down the wood fibers, for one. And have traditionally dumped those chemicals into the environment. Not to mention deforestation in many parts of the world. Even recycling paper causes a lot of pollution.
                            And that paper has to come from somewhere. So more and more trees get chopped down so they can make paper straws.

                            Something tells me that we'll revisit the argument we saw over paper or plastic bags. Every few years it was decided that one or the other was a scourge and we need to switch to the other only to see it being attacked a few years later as worse and we need to switch back. Then that will be attacked and a call will arise to switch again -- over and over.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                              Jim, I apologize for my anger. This is a sore issue with me because of where I live and how my husband made his living (and not a particularly lucrative one, but sufficient for us to raise our family) for 42 years and I do get frustrated by the rhetoric about if from environmentalists and liberal types.

                              You are all free to post here.

                              Thanks mossy.

                              Would it be too personal to ask you to explain that in a bit more detail? Just to help connect the dots.
                              He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                              "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                And that paper has to come from somewhere. So more and more trees get chopped down so they can make paper straws.

                                Something tells me that we'll revisit the argument we saw over paper or plastic bags. Every few years it was decided that one or the other was a scourge and we need to switch to the other only to see it being attacked a few years later as worse and we need to switch back. Then that will be attacked and a call will arise to switch again -- over and over.
                                Indeed.

                                But The problem doesn't come from trying to do the right thing or because the problem doesn't exist. So saying plastic in the oceans is not a problem is head in the sand sort of stuff. But understanding what the best response is to these problems is not always trivial, and the fact the 'correct' answer might wander around a bit is not an excuse to ignore the issue or deduce it is not serious.
                                He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                                "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                                Comment

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