Trump issues at least two pardons to service members

[Cow Poke]

If no one follows or enforces the rules, what good are they?

If one keeps changing the rules, what good are they?

[Cow Poke]

What good are they when the enemy doesn't follow them?

The more I read on this, and I'm considering the sources when I read, the more it appears that it's a problem resulting very much from the fact that we wear uniforms and present as soldiers, and the enemy wears civilian clothes, moves in and out of the civilian population, and presents as non-combatants to do combat.

[Charles]

I don't think one side violating these war crimes laws allows the other country to do the same. They would not be much use then, would they?

I agree. I am no longer surprised to see the relativism some twebbers support.

[seer]

The more I read on this, and I'm considering the sources when I read, the more it appears that it's a problem resulting very much from the fact that we wear uniforms and present as soldiers, and the enemy wears civilian clothes, moves in and out of the civilian population, and presents as non-combatants to do combat.

The point is we put these young men (mostly teenagers) in very dangerous situations and expect then not to over react, or not to get pay back after losing friends. This is not bean bag it is WAR.

[seer]

I agree. I am no longer surprised to see the relativism some twebbers support.

Where is the relativism?

[Charles]

Yep in certain cases, you need to read what the Japanese soldiers did to American captives, including cannibalism, using live Marines as bayonet practice, cutting of their genitals and a slew of other horrible things. Read "With the Old Breed" or "A Helmet For My Pillow." After what happen on Guadalcanal all bets were off.

So, you are seriously suggesting that one should shoot surrendering soldiers. And your arguments are they did worse (which is relativism) and then you suggest I read some books instead of providing sound arguments. Worth keeping in mind the next time you are suggesting God as a foundation for ethics. I have often pointed out that you are heading in the wrong direction and now you are completely of track.

[Charles]

Where is the relativism?

You found the killing of surrendering soldiers fine based on this: "Yep in certain cases, you need to read what the Japanese soldiers did to American captives, including cannibalism, using live Marines as bayonet practice, cutting of their genitals and a slew of other horrible things."

[Cow Poke]

The point is we put these young men (mostly teenagers) in very dangerous situations and expect then not to over react, or not to get pay back after losing friends. This is not bean bag it is WAR.

It's very much the same as with our police officers, except on a much more grand scale. We train them, arm them, send them out to protect us, but if things don't go exactly according to plan, lock 'em up!

In the case of our military, obviously, they are surrounded by FAR MORE potentially lethal adversaries dressed as civilians than our police officers.

[seer]

So, you are seriously suggesting that one should shoot surrendering soldiers. And your arguments are they did worse (which is relativism) and then you suggest I read some books instead of providing sound arguments. Worth keeping in mind the next time you are suggesting God as a foundation for ethics. I have often pointed out that you are heading in the wrong direction and now you are completely of track.

You mean the God that ordered the Hebrews to kill every man, woman and child? Or like our firebombing of Tokyo? And my argument is that if the enemy does not follow the rules of war it is not incumbent on us to. Why would it be?

[Charles]

You mean the God that ordered the Hebrews to kill every man, woman and child? Or like our firebombing of Tokyo? And my argument is that if the enemy does not follow the rules of war it is not incumbent on us to. Why would it be?

Based on your complete lack of anything decent to hold onto there it is no wonder you cannot see it. Perhaps your justification pointing to the God that ordered the Hebrews to kill every man, woman and child could serve as a wake up call but I seriously doubt it.

[oxmixmudd]

If one keeps changing the rules, what good are they?

laws change. The fact they change does not make them irrelevant. But lawlessness, now that is problem. And you should know that.

To the specifics of these cases, I do not know. I was addressing the general issue of shooting POW's or surrendering combatants. Our laws prohibit the killing of POW's or combatants engaged in legitimate surrender. If we do not follow the laws because someone else broke them, we are no better than they are.

[oxmixmudd]

It's very much the same as with our police officers, except on a much more grand scale. We train them, arm them, send them out to protect us, but if things don't go exactly according to plan, lock 'em up!

In the case of our military, obviously, they are surrounded by FAR MORE potentially lethal adversaries dressed as civilians than our police officers.

here too, it is more subtle. Sometimes it is unfair to the police officers. sometimes it is unfair to innocent people unfairly arrested or worse. There is no 'one size fits all' statement or reaction. You have to take it on a case by case basis.

But in the case of the military where the rules have been around for decades, you follow the rules. And if you don't enforce them, you'll have lawlessness. Again, as to the specifics of these cases, I do not know what we actually have. I can say I would not Trust Trump's judgement on it - he's not a person that thinks deeply about anything. And the fact the Pentagon warned him not to act is significant and not in his favor. But at the same time, I think a lot of times our Police and our Military get a raw deal from our politicians and activists.

But without more info, I don't really have a strong opinion at this point.

[seer]

Based on your complete lack of anything decent to hold onto there it is no wonder you cannot see it. Perhaps your justification pointing to the God that ordered the Hebrews to kill every man, woman and child could serve as a wake up call but I seriously doubt it.

I'm not sure what your problem is, why would we be compelled to follow the rules of war when our enemy didn't? How does that make sense? Do you believe that the firebombing of Tokyo was a war crime?

[oxmixmudd]

I'm not sure what your problem is, why would we be compelled to follow the rules of war when our enemy didn't? How does that make sense? Do you believe that the firebombing of Tokyo was a war crime?

Because we have ideals, morals, are a civilized people that recognize anarchy and lawlessness are not viable options.

[seer]

Because we have ideals, morals, are a civilized people that recognize anarchy and lawlessness are not viable options.

Like when we fired bombed Tokyo?

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion.../#.XdLxQVdKiM8