Originally posted by firstfloor
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Originally posted by RumTumTugger View PostNo it will only show what a sham this impeachment is since Adam Schiff refuses to let the defense bring out any of it's witnesses. which brings out hte questions what is Adam Schiff will be found out by the American people?“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostI think you are missing the point.
Crime is a matter of law, not justice.
Murder is a crime not because a jury thinks so, but because the Law says so.
A murderer might conceivably be insensible to his crime and have no witnesses or evidence against him; no one but God calls him criminal.
A criminal who leaves court not convicted and “without a stain on his character” is still a criminal.
This is not a contradiction, but a description of a state of knowledge. It stems from the fact that people tell lies.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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ff, let's cut to the chase.
I would agree that somebody who actually committed an actual crime, meeting all the elements of the statute which defines the crime, is, for all intents and purposes, a criminal whether found guilty in a court of law or not.
HOWEVER, there is no way for you to know who is and who is not a criminal apart from that person having been tried and found guilty of the offense for which he is charged.
Are we there, yet?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAnd I think you are.
I think that's rather simplistic. But, using your definition, only the law can determine the guilt, therefore, the "criminal" status.
Killing is not necessarily murder - that's what the law will decide. Some killing is justifiable.
God would call him a sinner.
If he was falsely accused, or otherwise justified in the killing, he was never a criminal to begin with.
Again, you're making this FAR too simple. Crimes come with definitions, which often have a number of requirements that have to be met in order for the offense to be considered a crime.“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Postff, let's cut to the chase.
I would agree that somebody who actually committed an actual crime, meeting all the elements of the statute which defines the crime, is, for all intents and purposes, a criminal whether found guilty in a court of law or not.
HOWEVER, there is no way for you to know who is and who is not a criminal apart from that person having been tried and found guilty of the offense for which he is charged.
Are we there, yet?“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostI agree. ‘Twas you, I contend, that went off on a tangent; not that I mind. I have the patience of a saint, if not actual sainthood yet.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostOK, still not knowing what's your point. What good is it "knowing" that somebody who committed a crime is a criminal, if we don't know for sure that the person committed the crime?“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostI was making an argument against MM’s position at #35 that a person not charged or convicted is, by definition, innocent.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostHOWEVER, there is no way for you to know who is and who is not a criminal apart from that person having been tried and found guilty of the offense for which he is charged.
Sometimes we even say "I think the jury/judge/court got it wrong" when they render a verdict that is at serious odds with what we know to be the evidence."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostEh? What about in cases where we know the evidence and can use our own brains?
Sometimes we even say "I think the jury/judge/court got it wrong" when they render a verdict that is at serious odds with what we know to be the evidence.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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You appear to be desperate to make an obviously-guilty Trump be innocent. And you appear to be very very creatively reinterpreting the concepts of innocence, evidence, and crimes, turning basic concepts upside down in order to accomplish the goal of making Trump look slightly less guilty. You appear to prefer to give up on the entire concept of justice rather than admit Trump committed crimes. That's kinda sad and pathetic.
I guess Hillary and her emails are totally exonerated by your new standards. No court has judged her guilty, so she's Totally Innocent Folks!"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostYou appear to be desperate to make an obviously-guilty Trump be innocent.
And you appear to be very very creatively reinterpreting the concepts of innocence, evidence, and crimes, turning basic concepts upside down in order to accomplish the goal of making Trump look slightly less guilty. You appear to prefer to give up on the entire concept of justice rather than admit Trump committed crimes. That's kinda sad and pathetic.
I guess Hillary and her emails are totally exonerated by your new standards. No court has judged her guilty, so she's Totally Innocent Folks!The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by dirtfloor View PostI was making an argument against MM’s position at #35 that a person not charged or convicted is, by definition, innocent.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostI think in this next phase, defense witnesses are allowed. If there is to be an impeachment vote, I hear it is likely to happen before the Christmas break. I think they have decided that Nunes is too stupid to ask any more questions.
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