Originally posted by firstfloor
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Sondland admits quid pro quo
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OA332, the bit about the bribery statute.
so the one thing that I wish that Adam Schiff would do in his introductory statements that we’re gonna do on this show is, that is a reflection of how lawyers give opening statements, and that is you start with the legal standard of the thing that you’re trying to prove.
Thomas: Hmm.
Andrew: Again, on Ukraine there is one law here. That’s part of why this is a really straightforward story to tell. That law is 18 U.S.C. § 201. It’s the bribery statute. There really are – I’ve described it as three elements, there really are two overarching elements to that statute. So the first two elements are that an elected official has to demand something of value in exchange for being influenced in the performance of any official act.
We’ve gone back and forth, if Republicans wanna call that, and the press has already seized on that as quid pro quo, quid pro quo, I’m okay with using that rhetoric. We’ve talked about ways in which it’s misleading, but I kind of view it as the messaging war over Obamacare for a while. [Laughs] Frank Lutz was like “we should call that Obamacare” and Republicans, following slavishly on Frank Lutz’s messaging, called it Obamacare. After about 6 months the Obama administration was like okay, fine, let’s call it Obamacare.
Thomas: Well, yeah.
Andrew: I am Obama and it does provide care for people.
Thomas: Right, but then when people polled “how do you like Obamacare” versus “how do you like the Affordable Care Act” there was a vast difference, so maybe that wasn’t a good idea, but I was gonna say this reminds me of setting up the whole collusion thing, you know?
Andrew: Yeah, yeah.
Thomas: Which was a pretty, honestly it was a pretty good trick they pulled, but this one’s funny to me because it’s like they tried to do the same thing, oh we’ll set it up for quid pro quo, quid pro quo, aha! Yes! We’ve set you up for quid pro quo, and we review the evidence and – oh wait, there actually is a pro..
Andrew: [Laughs] Yeah!
Thomas: Well we should’ve picked a thing that’s – uh, murder! We should’ve said murder. You’re saying there’s a murder and there’s not, clearly! They kinda messed up when they’re just describing exactly what happened.
Andrew: Yeah. I think – A, really, really good point on Obamacare, but put a pin in this, I think Republicans are really starting to back away from and concede the quid pro quo part, because what we saw in the hearings were very little that contested the underlying facts on those two elements, so where they’re really gonna shift to is the third part.
Again, only three elements, so the first two are subsumed by the quid pro quo. Is there a demand of something for value in exchange for being influenced in the performance of any official act? Yes. Then, the question is was that done with corrupt intent? That’s where the Republican defense is shifting and, by the way, that is exactly what we predicted!“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAnd if I were king...“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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At least the guy has a sense of humor...
sondland.JPG
https://twitter.com/Olivia_Beavers/s...ent-hearing%2FSome may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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David Axelrod appears to be sending up the white flag saying that based on Sondland's testimony, it is unlikely that "any R will break rank on impeachment".Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostDavid Axelrod appears to be sending up the white flag saying that based on Sondland's testimony, it is unlikely that "any R will break rank on impeachment".Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post[ATTACH=CONFIG]41000[/ATTACH]
https://twitter.com/RepMarkMeadows/s...ent-hearing%2FAtheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostWell, based on Hurd's questioning, not Sondland's testimony per se.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostWhat I took from Axrlrod's comment is that he doesn't see Sondland's testimony moving the needle towards impeachment. And why would it? His testimony was very good for Trump.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
Sorry seer. good try though.
Okay, so "everyone" was in the loop, but when given a list of specific names of people directly above him in the chain of command, Sondland testified that none of them told him that the release of aid was tied to Ukraine agreeing to undertake investigations.
Like seer said, "Oops..."Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIt still has to be proven, Jim. Maybe that can happen in the House, where Schiff has made himself judge, jury and PR man, but in the Senate there will be an actual judge and actual rules of evidence.“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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If you're curious whether or not Sondland's testimony was good for the impeachment narrative, here's a hint: liberals are protesting outside of Sondland's hotels and threatening his family.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...-with-threats/Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAnd when asked who "everyone" was, Sondland's response was essentially a shrug and "You know, everyone."
Okay, so "everyone" was in the loop, but when given a list of specific names of people directly above him in the chain of command, Sondland testified that none of them told him that the release of aid was tied to Ukraine agreeing to undertake investigations.
Like seer said, "Oops...""He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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