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Sondland admits quid pro quo

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  • Sondland admits quid pro quo

    And it's official:

    //https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/05/politics/gordon-sondland-kurt-volker-transcripts-impeachment-inquiry/index.html

    Source: cnn

    US Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland sent the committee a three-page addition to his testimony on Monday, saying he had remembered a September 1 conversation that occurred on the sidelines of a meeting between Vice President Mike Pence and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, in which he told a top aide to Zelensky that the security aid and investigations were linked.

    © Copyright Original Source

    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  • #2
    Let's quote his actual words, shall we?

    "After a large meeting, I now recall speaking individually with Mr. Yermak, where I said that resumption of U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anti-corruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks. I presumed that the aid suspension had become linked to the proposed anticorruption statement..."

    Emphasi mine.

    The first takeaway is that presumptions are not evidence.

    And the second is that this statement implies that he was never directed by the Trump administration to make this proposal.
    Last edited by Mountain Man; 11-05-2019, 05:50 PM.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      And it's official:

      //https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/05/politics/gordon-sondland-kurt-volker-transcripts-impeachment-inquiry/index.html

      Source: cnn

      US Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland sent the committee a three-page addition to his testimony on Monday, saying he had remembered a September 1 conversation that occurred on the sidelines of a meeting between Vice President Mike Pence and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, in which he told a top aide to Zelensky that the security aid and investigations were linked.

      © Copyright Original Source

      hmmm.jpg

      Maybe this?

      US Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland sent the committee a three-page addition to his testimony on Monday,
      Last edited by Cow Poke; 11-05-2019, 05:27 PM.
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Let's quote his actual words, shall we?

        "After a large meeting, I now recall speaking individually with Mr. Yermak, where I said that resumption of U.S. aid would likely not occur until Ukraine provided the public anti-corruption statement that we had been discussing for many weeks. I presumed that the aid suspension had become linked to the proposed anticorruption statement..."

        Emphasi mine.

        The first takeaway is that presumptions are not evidence.

        And the second is that this statement implies that he was never directed by the Trump administration to make this proposal.
        So, lemme get this straight --- he was adamant back then that there was no quid pro quo, and even texted back then that Trump was very angry and said "I want nothing - I want no quid pro quo", but now he "remembers" that he "presumed" there must have been....


        Yeah, rock solid!
        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

        Comment


        • #5
          Other sketchy statements from Sondland's "corrections" (again, emphasis mine):

          "I always believed that suspending aid to Ukraine was ill-advised, although I did not know (and still do not know) when, why, or by whom the aid was suspended. However, by the beginning of September 2019, and in the absence of any credible explanation for the suspension of aid, I presumed that the aid suspension had become linked to the proposed anti-corruption statement. As I said in my prepared testimony, security aid to Ukraine was in our vital national interest and should not have been delayed for any reason. [This is nothing but his opinion. -MM] And it would have been natural for me to have voiced what I had presumed to Ambassador Taylor, Senator Johnson, the Ukrainians, and Mr. Morrison."

          An awful lot of presuming going on. He also says "it would have been natural" for him to voice his concerns to interested parties, but pay attention to sleight of hand: He never says that he actually voiced his concerns!

          "Soon thereafter, I came to understand [Meaning he wasn't told. -MM] that, in fact, the public statement would need to come directly from President Zelensky himself. I do not specifically recall how I learned this [Again, the implication is that he wasn't told. -MM], but I believe that the information may have come either from Mr. Giuliani or from Ambassador Volkor, who may have discussed this with Mr. Giuliani."

          Remember, any time a witness says "may have", you can substitute "may not have" without changing the meaning of the statement.

          "In a later conversation with Ambassador Taylor, I told him that I had been mistaken about whether a public statement could come from the Prosecutor General; I had come to understand [The implication, again, is that this isn't something he was told. -MM] that the public statement would have to come from President Zelensky himself."

          Now see if you can follow along with this one:

          "Ambassador Taylor recalls that Mr. Morrison told Ambassador Taylor that I told Mr. Morrison that I had conveyed this message to Mr. Yermak..."

          That's like something out of a Marx Bros. skit!

          And on it goes. Taking apart testimony like this is like batting practice for defense attorneys.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            And on it goes. Taking apart testimony like this is like batting practice for defense attorneys.
            When you have statements that were made at the time, texts, emails..... vs "oh, yeah, I just remembered".... and, as you point out, the current version is "presumed", not "knew" or "know".
            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              When you have statements that were made at the time, texts, emails..... vs "oh, yeah, I just remembered".... and, as you point out, the current version is "presumed", not "knew" or "know".
              And "I learned" and "I came to believe" as opposed to "I was told".
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #8
                Interesting...

                In their rush to accuse the Trump administration of wrongdoing, Democrats and the media have overlooked one other key fact: the crucial August 2019 Politico article.

                The article, “Trump holds up Ukraine military aid meant to confront Russia,” dated August 28, was the first that the Ukrainians ever knew about any withholding of aid — five weeks after the phone call between Trump and Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky which supposedly prompted the so-called “whistleblower” to approach Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) and the Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee. Sondland refers specifically to September.

                Therefore what changed his — and others’ — impression was not anything the administration (or its representatives) did or said. Rather, it was the media.

                Since Sondland consumes the same media that everyone else does — indeed, it is part of a diplomat’s job to know what is being said — he drew his own conclusions. But when he asked President Trump directly, Trump told him there was no “quid pro quo”: he just wanted Zelensky to do “the right thing.”

                https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...-quid-pro-quo/
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  And "I learned" and "I came to believe" as opposed to "I was told".
                  It's always a red flag when a witness changes their testimony without a solid reason.
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Interesting...

                    In their rush to accuse the Trump administration of wrongdoing, Democrats and the media have overlooked one other key fact: the crucial August 2019 Politico article.

                    The article, “Trump holds up Ukraine military aid meant to confront Russia,” dated August 28, was the first that the Ukrainians ever knew about any withholding of aid — five weeks after the phone call between Trump and Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky which supposedly prompted the so-called “whistleblower” to approach Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) and the Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee. Sondland refers specifically to September.

                    Therefore what changed his — and others’ — impression was not anything the administration (or its representatives) did or said. Rather, it was the media.

                    Since Sondland consumes the same media that everyone else does — indeed, it is part of a diplomat’s job to know what is being said — he drew his own conclusions. But when he asked President Trump directly, Trump told him there was no “quid pro quo”: he just wanted Zelensky to do “the right thing.”

                    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...-quid-pro-quo/
                    I'm just laughing and laughing. I called your tack on this. Nailed it. You all are just absolutely linked at the hip to Trump, and he is just the wrong person to sacrifice yourselves for.
                    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes that's the one, noting especially where it says "Sondland's new testimony, which was included in the public release of his closed-door deposition transcript on Tuesday, adds to Democrats' evidence that the President connected the freezing of US security aid to Ukraine to investigations into Biden as well as the hacking of the Democratic National Committee's servers during the 2016 election, which cuts to the heart of their impeachment case against Trump". Namely where he acknowledges what everyone knows: "a quid pro quo with Ukraine".
                      Last edited by Tassman; 11-06-2019, 12:52 AM.
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        _________ Admits Foreign Policy. Film at Eleven.

                        Seriously, qpq for anti-corruption initiative would be perfectly valid FP.

                        Where's the beef?

                        Last edited by Teallaura; 11-06-2019, 01:15 AM.

                        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                        My Personal Blog

                        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          I'm just laughing and laughing. I called your tack on this. Nailed it. You all are just absolutely linked at the hip to Trump, and he is just the wrong person to sacrifice yourselves for.
                          Your inability to look at any of this objectively and rationally and arrive at a reasonable fact-based conclusion is noted. I'm picturing you doubled over with the high-pitchef hysterical laugh of someone who has lost his senses.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            Your inability to look at any of this objectively and rationally and arrive at a reasonable fact-based conclusion is noted. I'm picturing you doubled over with the high-pitchef hysterical laugh of someone who has lost his senses.
                            As usual, the picture you paint is wrong.

                            The facts are that Trump was using US aid, almost 400 million of it, to buy dirt on a political rival.

                            And yet you support and excuse it.

                            What more needs to be said.
                            He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                            "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                              The facts...
                              Presumptions are not facts.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment

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