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Sondland admits quid pro quo

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  • Originally posted by Watermelon View Post
    That..... makes no sense. You literally can't plead guilty to something that isn't a crime.
    My wife asked if I ate her half of the carrot cake cupcake. You would have THOUGHT it was a crime the way she looked at me, but.... guilty!!!
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      Yeah, he pleaded guilty to something that wasn't a crime. Former chairman of the FEC said no laws were broken.
      Well laws were broken which is why Cohen is in jail. He was sentenced to three years in prison for financial crimes and for orchestrating hush money payments to porn star Stormy Daniels and Playboy model Karen McDougal. This was done, according Cohen, at the direction of Trump shortly before the election so as not to jeopardize his chances during the election.
      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Nullified nothing. Sondland says he "presumed". Frankly, he can presume whatever he wants. That doesn't make it a fact.
        Just like with collusion you have the facts and actual evidence on the one side while on the other you have presumptions, speculations, jaundiced opinions and good old blind hatred.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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        • Originally posted by Watermelon View Post
          That..... makes no sense. You literally can't plead guilty to something that isn't a crime.
          People do so all the time for a wide variety of reasons.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Watermelon View Post
            That..... makes no sense. You literally can't plead guilty to something that isn't a crime.
            Allow me to clarify: what he did wasn't a crime, but he pleaded guilty to a falae accusation as part of his plea deal.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Virginia Heffernan spoke to Ross Garber on Trumpcast. I wonder if Pelosi might not do impeachment after all. it looks like Trump could get off if he handles Rudy the right way.
                “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                “not all there” - you know who you are

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                • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                  Virginia Heffernan spoke to Ross Garber on Trumpcast. I wonder if Pelosi might not do impeachment after all. it looks like Trump could get off if he handles Rudy the right way.
                  Hasn't Pelosi given the green light for impeachment?
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    People do so all the time for a wide variety of reasons.
                    So, you'd go so far as to say that the Special Prosecutor is so corrupt that they are forcing witnesses to lie about the President of the U.S.? And no, people don't do it all the time, occassionally, naive people without lawyers are pressured into pleading guilty to crimes they didn't commit, not innocent people with great lawyers. Cohen pleaded guilty because he was obviously guilty, and he implicated Trump because there's a recording of him and Trump discussing the scheme.

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                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Hasn't Pelosi given the green light for impeachment?
                      Open hearings begin next week.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        Open hearings begin next week.
                        Yeah, so maybe ff is using a double negative or something - I was under the impression "it's on".
                        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by dirtfloor View Post
                          Virginia Heffernan spoke to Ross Garber on Trumpcast. I wonder if Pelosi might not do impeachment after all. it looks like Trump could get off if he handles Rudy the right way.
                          You say this like it isn't a foregone conclusion. Of course Pelosi is going to "do impeachment". That was the plan from day one when Democrats took control of the House in 2018. The only reason she has feigned hesitation is because of unexpectedly losing seats in the Senate which really upset their plans, because otherwise there is no doubt in my mind that they would have voted for impeachment and removal from office on the first day Congress was back in session in early 2019.

                          Plan B, of course, was to keep the sham "inquiry" going late into 2020 in order to tip the scales against Trump during the general election, but with Barr and Durham getting ready to open a can of you-know-what, the Democrats have had to put impeachment on the fast-track. It will be interesting to see how all this plays out, but chances are good that low-info sky-screamers like you are going to be bitterly disappointed yet again.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            So, you'd go so far as to say that the Special Prosecutor is so corrupt that they are forcing witnesses to lie about the President of the U.S.? And no, people don't do it all the time, occassionally, naive people without lawyers are pressured into pleading guilty to crimes they didn't commit, not innocent people with great lawyers. Cohen pleaded guilty because he was obviously guilty, and he implicated Trump because there's a recording of him and Trump discussing the scheme.
                            As this article points out, Jim, it happens far more than you'd imagine...

                            Criminally Yours: Lying To Get To The Truth

                            Why would someone ever admit to a crime he didn't commit? How could anyone be so naive or stupid? But not only does it happen, it happens more frequently than you would imagine. Why?

                            A hot topic in criminal law is “false confessions.” Why would someone ever admit to a crime he didn’t commit? How could anyone be so naive or stupid?

                            But not only does it happen, it happens more frequently than you would imagine. Why?

                            In large part because it’s legal for police to tell suspects the boldest lies in order to wrangle a confession from them. Among the most common lies are:

                            – “We’ve got you on video doing the crime, so you might as well admit it.”

                            – “This is only a small case, just say you did it and you’ll get a drug program.”


                            and...

                            The only way psychological gamesmanship might be disapproved by the court is if it’s so egregious as to offend “the notion of fundamental fairness.” But boy, is that a big hurdle.

                            Take the case of Matthew Thomas. Police lied to him in a manner so egregious, even John McCain would have cracked. Thomas was accused of killing his four-month-old son. After being interrogated for more than nine hours, he was told that if he didn’t admit to doing the crime, his wife would be arrested for it and dragged from the baby’s hospital bedside because “one of them had to have done it.” They told him the baby was still alive, and that his information would save the child’s life. Another lie — the baby was already dead. They told him they were sure it was an accident, and if he just admitted it, he could go home. Right.

                            The trial judge found that the confession was not only voluntary, but that defense counsel had no right to put on an expert in police interrogation techniques to speak about the phenomenon of false confessions.

                            Police fed Thomas information about how they believed the death occurred then prodded him to parrot it back.


                            I was taught in basic police school this "it's ok to lie to get a confession" -- I never felt comfortable with that, but, yeah - it happens FAR more than you'd ever imagine.
                            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Yeah, so maybe ff is using a double negative or something - I was under the impression "it's on".
                              Maybe he of the opinion that Impeachment doesn't beging until after the testimony and articles are filed. Could be, I don't know, but i'm sure they'll be filed anyway. What the so far unscrupulous Republican majority Senate will do with that is another question. But ultimately it will come down to the people after they understand the issues. They will either force their Senators to vote one way or the other, or they will decide innocence or guilt for themselves in the election.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                Maybe he of the opinion that Impeachment doesn't beging until after the testimony and articles are filed. Could be, I don't know, but i'm sure they'll be filed anyway. What the so far unscrupulous Republican majority Senate will do with that is another question. But ultimately it will come down to the people after they understand the issues. They will either force their Senators to vote one way or the other, or they will decide innocence or guilt for themselves in the election.
                                So, the Senate is only 'scrupulous' if they convict? Can we see the testimony under oath, subject to cross-examination first, please?

                                But, yes, you're pretty much admitting this is all political, like I stated before - it's a "show trial", the ultimate outcome of which will probably be the way people vote in an upcoming election.
                                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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