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Trump loses yet another case in court.

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  • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
    Research first, conclusions second.

    Here are the charges Trump’s ex-lawyer Michael Cohen admitted to in federal court
    PUBLISHED TUE, AUG 21 2018 5:52 PM EDT
    UPDATED TUE, AUG 21 2018 9:54 PM EDT

    Kevin Breuninger
    President Donald Trump’s longtime personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, admitted guilt on eight counts of financial crimes in federal court Tuesday.
    ...

    Tax fraud [5 counts]

    Making false statements to a financial institution [1 count]

    Unlawful corporate contributions [1 count]

    Excessive campaign contribution [1 count]

    It was a campaign contribution.
    As we've pointed out several times, Cohen pleaded guilty to a crime he didn't commit in order to get a lighter sentence on crimes he did commit. The whole point was to give them something to use against Trump, and what did Cohen have to lose? Except the former chairman of the FEC says that the payment violated no laws, and as far as I know, the FEC hasn't even bothered to open a case against the President.
    Last edited by Mountain Man; 11-09-2019, 01:29 PM.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      As we've pointed out several times, Cohen pleaded guilty to a crime he didn't commit in order to get a lighter sentence on crimes he did commit. The whole point was to give them something to use against Trump, and what did Cohen have to lose? Except the former chairman of the FEC says that the payment violated no laws, and as far as I know, the FEC hasn't even bothered to open a case against the President.
      You can crop everything from the ? on from a url without spoiling the link.

      The WSJ opinion piece was dated 4/10/18, the day after the FBI raid on Cohen's offices, and months before Cohen's confession in August, hence factually deficient, as is the claim that Cohen did not commit the crime to which he confessed. Plea deals are offered for lesser offenses, not spurious offenses.

      A prosecutor accepted a plea of guilty of an illegal campaign contribution, and a judge accepted it. It was a campaign contribution, in law, and in fact, or it was an act of gross prosecutorial and judicial misconduct. The latter would be a baseless conspiracy theory.


      It was a campaign contribution.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
        It was a campaign contribution.
        Not at all. You didn't bother reading the article I posted and chose to dismiss it based simply on the date it was published. Cohen's false confession didn't change anything as far as the law is concerned.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Not at all. You didn't bother reading the article I posted and chose to dismiss it based simply on the date it was published.
          You may assume, at bare minimum, I have never commented on an article I have not read. You may also assume I have followed and read the content of all links included in the article. In this case, before commenting, I'd also googled the author, checked the law school he teaches at, read about his principle organization and reviews of the book he's best known for, along with some of his history of opposition to campaign finance reform, including McCain-Feingold.

          He's on the fringe, but not a conspiracy theorist, and very high quality. His opinions are worth reading, and appear to be carefully fact-checked in keeping with the standard editorial oversight typical of the WSJ.

          That does not mean his opinions encompass facts that would not be in evidence for months after his piece was written.

          Cohen's false confession didn't change anything as far as the law is concerned.
          From all appearances, the charge that Cohen's confession was false is based on partisan convenience alone, is not supported by any facts, and is reckless of its requisite conspiratorial entailments, including those mentioned in my earlier post, which, ironically enough, it does not appear you have read.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
            From all appearances, the charge that Cohen's confession was false is based on partisan convenience alone...
            No, it's based on the fact that the payments were a simple business transaction and violated no laws. The fact that they are trying to use this case to conduct a fishing expedition into Trump's tax records that have nothing to do with any of this should make you at least a little suspicious. They have Cohen's testimony; they have his confession; they have his files; they probably even have the receipts from the payments. In other words, if a crime was committed, then they should have all the evidence they need to press charges, so why won't they?

            That is, of course, a rhetorical question.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              No, it's based on the fact that the payments were a simple business transaction and violated no laws. The fact that they are trying to use this case to conduct a fishing expedition into Trump's tax records that have nothing to do with any of this should make you at least a little suspicious. They have Cohen's testimony; they have his confession; they have his files; they probably even have the receipts from the payments. In other words, if a crime was committed, then they should have all the evidence they need to press charges, so why won't they?

              That is, of course, a rhetorical question.
              If you actually believe the things you say MM, then you are a very naive person. If Trump had had any intention of ever paying of these women, then they would have been paid off a long time ago, not just before an election. But regardless, it's under investigation, and, according to the court, his taxes are fair game in that investigation.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                Obama's violations were amongst the most egregious ever documented and forced him to pay one of the largest fines ever levied against any campaign -- $375,000. And, of course to absolutely nobody's surprise nearly all of the MSM studiously ignored it, and if not, typically burying it deep in a passing mention in an unrelated story.
                I went to the trouble of checking this out. The violations amounted to late reporting of $1.8 million in contributions within 20 days of the election, when the reporting window tightened to 48 hours. The late reporting was judged inadvertent, and hence not criminal, but serious enough to impose a fine of about 20 percent of the late-reported contributions. The contributions themselves were legal, and the fine was assessed against the campaign, meaning it was paid off using campaign contributions.

                Yeah, irony.

                For perspective, Cohen paid off a porn star to keep her revelations from preventing Trump's election, an illegal, i.e. criminal, campaign contribution, for which he is currently serving time, making him the third Trump aide to be sent up the river, following Manafort and Papadap, putting him well ahead of his latest consigliere, who's only seen two of his close associates arrested, but not yet convicted.

                You're a slacker, Rudy.

                I've said this before, and as much as I hate to harp, y'all really should get around to finding whataboutism's that are worse than the behavior you're deflecting from.



                Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                Honestly, considering Trump, I wouldn't be surprised if the reason he's fighting tooth and nail isn't because there's anything illegal in it, but because it would show he doesn't make as much money as he claims he does.
                That scans well, but I've always assumed the cash real estate buys from Russians would track back to money laundering. That's the real worry, I'd imagine, as he's not the sort who can hire the brightest and best, and without them, there's little chance they'd have covered it up effectively.

                Could even show up in his tax returns, if they were really sloppy.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  The fact that we are discussing this, and that the details are public, shows it didn't actually work at all, Jim.
                  Sometimes your comments are witty, and even incisive.

                  This isn't one of those times.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
                    But regardless, it's under investigation...
                    Which circles back to my point: What's there to investigate when Cohen presumably gave up everything on his former client, including secret recordings of Trump discussing the payments? Why go after Trump's tax records when prosecutors should already have more than enough to press charges?

                    The answer is obvious: they don't have enough to press charges because the payments broke no laws.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                      I've said this before, and as much as I hate to harp, y'all really should get around to finding whataboutism's that are worse than the behavior you're deflecting from.
                      Or, perhaps they should stop to rely on whataboutism since, even if it was worse, it would not make it any better for Trump. I wonder why that rather simple point is so hard to understand for some twebbers.
                      "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                        Sometimes your comments are witty, and even incisive.

                        This isn't one of those times.
                        Bacon.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                          You can crop everything from the ? on from a url without spoiling the link.

                          The WSJ opinion piece was dated 4/10/18, the day after the FBI raid on Cohen's offices, and months before Cohen's confession in August, hence factually deficient, as is the claim that Cohen did not commit the crime to which he confessed. Plea deals are offered for lesser offenses, not spurious offenses.

                          A prosecutor accepted a plea of guilty of an illegal campaign contribution, and a judge accepted it. It was a campaign contribution, in law, and in fact, or it was an act of gross prosecutorial and judicial misconduct. The latter would be a baseless conspiracy theory.


                          It was a campaign contribution.
                          Several posts have cited examples of how prosecutors get people to plead to spurious charges and why they do so. It happens. You might try to keep up.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            Several posts have cited examples of how prosecutors get people to plead to spurious charges and why they do so. It happens. You might try to keep up.
                            I've seen posts about Hillary's hit squad, Barack's fake birth certificate, Seth Rich stealing DNC emails, vaccines causing autism, climate scientists faking data, Q-freaking-anon, pizzagate pedophiles, and the oldie that will never stop finding flowers for its grave — a fringe story ignored by the MSM known only because it was reported first in the MSM.

                            So no, I wouldn't be surprised to find that one out there, too. Hell, it wouldn't even surprise me to find Christians, on a Christian-run board, brushing off paying a porn star side dish in October to keep her from spoiling a November election by saying it wasn't a campaign contribution.

                            There's a whole lotta crazy in here.

                            I keep up well enough, but thanks anyway.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                              I've seen posts about Hillary's hit squad, Barack's fake birth certificate, Seth Rich stealing DNC emails, vaccines causing autism, climate scientists faking data, Q-freaking-anon, pizzagate pedophiles, and the oldie that will never stop finding flowers for its grave — a fringe story ignored by the MSM known only because it was reported first in the MSM.

                              So no, I wouldn't be surprised to find that one out there, too. Hell, it wouldn't even surprise me to find Christians, on a Christian-run board, brushing off paying a porn star side dish in October to keep her from spoiling a November election by saying it wasn't a campaign contribution.

                              There's a whole lotta crazy in here.

                              I keep up well enough, but thanks anyway.
                              Don't forget the Steel Dossier and the entire impeachment inquiry, since you are listing off a slew of fake news stuff...
                              That's what
                              - She

                              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                              - Stephen R. Donaldson

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                                I've seen posts about Hillary's hit squad, Barack's fake birth certificate, Seth Rich stealing DNC emails, vaccines causing autism, climate scientists faking data, Q-freaking-anon, pizzagate pedophiles, and the oldie that will never stop finding flowers for its grave — a fringe story ignored by the MSM known only because it was reported first in the MSM.

                                So no, I wouldn't be surprised to find that one out there, too. Hell, it wouldn't even surprise me to find Christians, on a Christian-run board, brushing off paying a porn star side dish in October to keep her from spoiling a November election by saying it wasn't a campaign contribution.

                                There's a whole lotta crazy in here.

                                I keep up well enough, but thanks anyway.
                                How about that one where Tulsi Gabbard and Jill Stein are Russian assets?
                                I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                                Comment

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