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In China, every day is Kristallnacht

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  • In China, every day is Kristallnacht

    In China, every day is Kristallnacht
    By Fred Hiatt
    November 3 at 11:00 AM
    In China, every day is Kristallnacht.

    Eighty-one years ago this week, in what is also known as the “Night of Broken Glass,” hundreds of synagogues and Jewish cemeteries in Nazi Germany were damaged or destroyed, along with thousands of Jewish-owned businesses. It was in a sense the starting gun for the genocide that culminated in the extermination camps of Auschwitz, Sobibor and Treblinka.

    In western China, the demolition of mosques and bulldozing of cemeteries is a continuing, relentless process.

    Now.

    2019-11-03_17-10-05.jpg
    Satellite images via Google Earth

    v. then.

    2019-11-03_17-09-39.jpg
    Satellite image analysis by Uyghurism.com/Bahram Sintash
    In a cultural genocide with few parallels since World War II, thousands of Muslim religious sites have been destroyed. At least 1 million Muslims have been confined to camps, where aging imams are shackled and young men are forced to renounce their faith. Muslims not locked away are forced to eat during the fasting month of Ramadan, forced to drink and smoke in violation of their faith, barred from praying or studying the Koran or making the pilgrimage to Mecca.

    And — in possibly the most astonishing feature of this crime against humanity — China has managed to stifle, through 21st century repression and age-old thuggery, virtually any reporting from the crime scene.

    Hiatt is the Post's editorial page editor. Sintash is, well ...
    Sintash, 37, lives in the United States but grew up in what is now, he says, “a police surveillance state unlike any the world has ever known.” Sintash knows: Chinese police took his father into custody in February 2018, and Sintash has not heard from him since.

    Demolishing Faith: The Destruction and Desecration of Uyghur Mosques and Shrines


  • #2
    wow
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

    Comment


    • #3
      They fear religion, what do you expect from a Communist country? Human rights?
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        wow
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        They fear religion, what do you expect from a Communist country? Human rights?
        The motivations are one thing, and the methods are another. I've been following this story for some time now, and what's most remarkable is how difficult it's been to get any story at all out of Xinjiang. Official counts have thousands up to tens of thousands where other accounts speak of up to a million of these Uighurs in what amount to concentration camps. There are pics of city streets ...

        2019-11-03_20-36-57.jpg

        And then add in facial recognition software, social worth databases, and open source tools used to model and effect behavior at the societal level ... can't remember that one clearly enough to do a google search, but it scared the crap out of me when I first read it a year or so ago.

        The really scary thing about big brother is when it's someone else's big brother looking to take advantage of his newfound muscle in new neighborhoods.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
          The motivations are one thing, and the methods are another. I've been following this story for some time now, and what's most remarkable is how difficult it's been to get any story at all out of Xinjiang. Official counts have thousands up to tens of thousands where other accounts speak of up to a million of these Uighurs in what amount to concentration camps. There are pics of city streets ...

          [ATTACH=CONFIG]40677[/ATTACH]

          And then add in facial recognition software, social worth databases, and open source tools used to model and effect behavior at the societal level ... can't remember that one clearly enough to do a google search, but it scared the crap out of me when I first read it a year or so ago.

          The really scary thing about big brother is when it's someone else's big brother looking to take advantage of his newfound muscle in new neighborhoods.
          I knew about significant clamping down from our who missionaries who... um.. are not officially there... had no idea about the Muslims.
          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            I knew about significant clamping down from our who missionaries who... um.. are not officially there... had no idea about the Muslims.
            Clamping down on missionaries is the runny edge of the egg.

            The yolk is large scale social engineering, beginning with the kind of mass relocations of Han populations used in the assimilation of Tibet, a cultural annihilation typified by naming their own Panchen lama (and choosing Catholic archbishops).

            Tibet was just a few million people.

            Xinjiang is around 20 million; it's a semi-autonomous region tucked up against the 'stans. They're not just adding in modern tech methods — which would be scary enough — they're scaling up. Most countries don't have 20 million people.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
              The motivations are one thing, and the methods are another. I've been following this story for some time now, and what's most remarkable is how difficult it's been to get any story at all out of Xinjiang. Official counts have thousands up to tens of thousands where other accounts speak of up to a million of these Uighurs in what amount to concentration camps. There are pics of city streets ...
              I have read about the Uighurs, the thing is, none of this is surprising. What is surprising is how we in the West keep supporting this regime through trade... Remember the logic - if we open up markets with China that will foster democratic reforms. It only made it easier and more efficient for them to enforce their totalitarian inclinations.
              Last edited by seer; 11-03-2019, 10:29 PM.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                What is surprising is how we in the West keep supporting this regime through trade... Remember the logic - if we open up markets with China that will foster democratic reforms. It only made it easier and more efficient for them to enforce their totalitarian inclinations.
                Part of the real logic is $$$, billions to be made from off-shoring production to China. That's pure capitalism.
                Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                  Part of the real logic is $$$, billions to be made from off-shoring production to China. That's pure capitalism.
                  That is why I'm a protectionist...
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    They fear religion, what do you expect from a Communist country? Human rights?
                    It's somewhat ironic that China is doing to Islam what Islam does to the rest of the world.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                      Clamping down on missionaries is the runny edge of the egg...
                      I'm being purposely evasive because Southern Baptists officially do not have 'missionaries' in China, due to China being a "closed country".

                      What we do have is a large number of 'college professors' teaching English or professionals working in other positions who are in contact with local Christian pastors. They coordinate "house churches", and a very disturbing number of followers simply disappear.

                      I'd hardly call that a "runny edge", but I also, having looked into this further, and consulting with my "son in the faith" who works directly for the International Mission Board, concede that the Muslim persecution is far worse than I had ever imagined.
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        I'm being purposely evasive because Southern Baptists officially do not have 'missionaries' in China, due to China being a "closed country".

                        What we do have is a large number of 'college professors' teaching English or professionals working in other positions who are in contact with local Christian pastors. They coordinate "house churches", and a very disturbing number of followers simply disappear.

                        I'd hardly call that a "runny edge", but I also, having looked into this further, and consulting with my "son in the faith" who works directly for the International Mission Board, concede that the Muslim persecution is far worse than I had ever imagined.
                        I don't know, some of this may have to do with the 2014 Kunming attack by Uyghurs (supposedly).
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          I'm being purposely evasive because Southern Baptists officially do not have 'missionaries' in China, due to China being a "closed country".
                          That was obvious.

                          What we do have is a large number of 'college professors' teaching English or professionals working in other positions who are in contact with local Christian pastors. They coordinate "house churches", and a very disturbing number of followers simply disappear.
                          That wasn't. Thanks.

                          That's very disturbing, not least because you can't really know whether someone has "disappeared," of their own volition, or "was disappeared," by the state, and you're left calculating statistics, asking if "this number" says "that disappearance" was involuntary.

                          I'd hardly call that a "runny edge", but I also, having looked into this further, and consulting with my "son in the faith" who works directly for the International Mission Board, concede that the Muslim persecution is far worse than I had ever imagined.
                          I hesitated to even post the issue here, because there are bound to be folks who think tearing down mosques, especially those newly constructed, or even under construction, is no more than just deserts. Especially with populations closely aligned with the 'stans, where vastly worse outrages have been committed against world cultural heritage sites.

                          The pictures of bulldozed cemeteries was my personal tipping point.

                          Now.

                          2019-11-04_08-13-08.jpg
                          Satellite images via Google Earth.

                          And then.

                          2019-11-04_08-12-40.jpg
                          The site of Sultanim cemetery in Hotan, Xinjiang, in December, 2018 and March 2019.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            This is happening to Christians also, to a lesser degree...

                            In China, they’re closing churches, jailing pastors – and even rewriting scripture

                            https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...nslation-bible
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                              That's very disturbing, not least because you can't really know whether someone has "disappeared," of their own volition, or "was disappeared," by the state, and you're left calculating statistics, asking if "this number" says "that disappearance" was involuntary.
                              Our IMB "associates" work with local pastors and lay people. The "disappeared" factor is compounded by the fact that, when the local pastor goes to check on the missing, there will be a new family living in the house or apartment, and the new family will be very much pro-government.

                              I hesitated to even post the issue here, because there are bound to be folks who think tearing down mosques, especially those newly constructed, or even under construction, is no more than just deserts. Especially with populations closely aligned with the 'stans, where vastly worse outrages have been committed against world cultural heritage sites.
                              Yeah, long ago I came to terms with "religious persecution is religious persecution", and I take no comfort in it happening to "them" to a greater deal than to "us".

                              The pictures of bulldozed cemeteries was my personal tipping point.
                              I get the importance of cemeteries - I really do. When we were on a mission trip to Poland years ago, we spent two days cleaning out the local Jewish cemetery, which had become overrun with weeds and overgrowth - tombstones and markers had been knocked over and or/broken. A local had told us of the importance of the Jewish cemetery to the Jews, but they are not allowed to be 'among the dead'. We would be clearing the cemetery and uprighting makers and tombstones, and a crowd would form to watch us.

                              At the end of the first day, as we were leaving the cemetery, an old Polish Jewish woman grabbed me and hugged me and just held onto me weeping.

                              So, yeah, that's quite sobering.
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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