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Whistleblower identified

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  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    That's wonderful.

    I thought it was slightly petty, however, for him to insist on being addressed as "Lieutenant Colonel Vindman" in the hearing. It kinda reminded me of Col Jessup demanding that he be referred to by his rank in A Few Good Men - "I would appreciate it if he would address me as "colonel" or "sir." I believe I've earned it"
    You are right there. He's lucky the late night comics attacked Nunes on that and not him. At the same time, I think he was right to stand up to the previous disrespect for the uniform, even if the choice of when to make the statement was awkward.

    His rank of Lt. Col. does not change the fact that he is human, and can make mistakes, or change his testimony, or be partisan.
    He appears to have overstated the significance of the president "making a demand", which was the language of the supposed whistle blower, and he had to dial that back.
    Again, I agree the word choice was awkward. Extortion is the right word for what trump was doing IMHO. Demand is too 'in your face' for what Trump was up to.

    And to respect Vindman for his courage, demonstrated here and on the battlefield, and his overall integrity is not to pretend he does not have flaws.

    Witnesses change their testimony all the time, regardless whether they are in civvies or uniform.
    I didn't see Vindman changing his testimony CP. Are you thinking of Volker?
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 11-20-2019, 08:21 AM.
    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      Just because someone can put on a uniform doesn't automatically make him above reproach.

      National Security Council supervisors and colleagues raised concerns about Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman’s judgment on multiple occasions, according to testimony Tuesday from former National Security Director of Russia and European affairs Tim Morrison.

      Morrison said his predecessor Dr. Fiona Hill and other staff at the NSC had raised concerns about Vindman’s judgment, as well as Deputy Senior Director for Europe John Erath.

      ...

      Morrison also stated in his testimony that others at the National Security Council expressed concerns that Vindman had leaked sensitive information.

      Officials also had concerns that Vindman worked outside of the chain of command.

      “I would consider it to be an unfortunate habit he picked up from his prior boss,” he said, referring to Hill.

      Morrison said that other personnel raised concerns about Vindman, leading him to “keep an eye” on him and form his own conclusion.

      Morrison acknowledged that after watching Vindman’s behavior, he was not confident in his judgment.

      “He did not always exercise the best judgment in terms of the policymaking process,” he said.

      https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...mans-judgment/
      Again, you only see what you want to see. Vindman in response to that accusation pulled out a letter from Dr Fiona Hill stating in what high eteem she held him. That's from the horses mouth. Besides that, Morrison, who was supposed to be the republicans witness, rather than commit perjury, was forced to admit to the Presidents quid pro quo/bribery/extortion demand. Guilty. Now all we need watch is whether the republican Senate will continue in its unamerican, corrupt defense, of this corrupt and treasonous President.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        good comeback, but it doesn't change the truth as it applies to you.
        You falsely accused me of ignoring the facts in favor of smearing Vindman when all I did was quote someone else's sworn testimony.

        Frankly, you can take that plank out of your eye and shove it up your... well, use your imagination.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          That's wonderful.

          I thought it was slightly petty, however, for him to insist on being addressed as "Lieutenant Colonel Vindman" in the hearing. It kinda reminded me of Col Jessup demanding that he be referred to by his rank in A Few Good Men - "I would appreciate it if he would address me as "colonel" or "sir." I believe I've earned it"

          His rank of Lt. Col. does not change the fact that he is human, and can make mistakes, or change his testimony, or be partisan.
          He appears to have overstated the significance of the president "making a demand", which was the language of the supposed whistle blower, and he had to dial that back.

          Witnesses change their testimony all the time, regardless whether they are in civvies or uniform.
          I'm disappointed that Nunes didn't respond by saying:

          "MISTER Vindman, will you please answer the question?"
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
            Morrison ... was forced to admit to the Presidents quid pro quo/bribery/extortion demand.
            Provide a direct quote from Morrison's testimony, if you please.

            Meanwhile, I'll just leave this here...

            Former senior National Security Council (NSC) official Tim Morrison confirmed Tuesday afternoon that he did not think President Donald Trump’s phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in July was illegal.

            Morrison was testifying alongside former special envoy to Ukraine Kurt Volker in the fourth public hearing before the House Intelligence Committee in the ongoing impeachment inquiry. Both witnesses had already given closed-door depositions; their testimony had been so favorable to the president that Republicans asked committee chairman Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) to invite them back. Though Schiff could have vetoed the request, the fact that he himself had called them in for earlier testimony made that politically difficult, and so he acceded to the GOP’s request.

            When Democratic counsel Daniel Goldman asked Morrison, “you indicated in your opening statement or at least from your deposition that you went to [NSC counsel] Mr. [John] Eisenberg out of concern over the potential political fallout if the call record became public and not because you thought it was illegal,” Morrison replied: “Correct.”

            Goldman then asked whether “asking a foreign government to investigate a domestic political rival is inappropriate.” Morrison deflected the question somewhat, saying it was not recommended.

            (In his deposition, Morrison testified — much to Schiff’s apparent annoyance — that he did not even interpret the Ukraine call as particularly political.)

            Morrison also confirmed that the transcript of the Ukraine call had been placed on a more secure server by mistake — not because of an attempted cover-up.

            Asked by Republicans whether either of them had seen anything resembling bribery or extortion, both said no.

            Morrison also added, in response to Republican counsel Stephen Castor, later that he had no concerns about the call.


            https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...s-not-illegal/

            And this...

            Morrison testified there was no bribery tied to military aid with Ukraine, the basis for which the Democratic impeachment efforts are built upon.

            “Did anyone ever ask you to bribe or extort anyone at any time during your time in the White House?” asked ranking Republican Rep. Devin Nunes of California.

            “No,” said Morrison.

            https://thefederalist.com/2019/11/19...r-impeachment/

            And one more...

            “I wanted to start between the July 25 call between President Trump and President Zelensky,” Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-NY) began. “Mr. Morrison, you were on that call and there was no mention of withholding aid on the call, correct?”

            “That is correct, Congresswoman,” Morrison responded.

            “And there was no quid pro quo, correct?” Stefanik asked.

            “Correct,” Morrison responded.

            “No bribery?” Stefanik responded.

            “Correct,” Morrison responded.

            “No extortion?” Stefanik asked.

            “Correct,” Morrison responded.

            https://thefederalist.com/2019/11/19...r-impeachment/

            I'm not sure what fake news you've been reading, Jimmy, but your claim that "Morrison ... was forced to admit to the Presidents quid pro quo/bribery/extortion demand" appears to be false.
            Last edited by Mountain Man; 11-20-2019, 09:53 AM.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              I'm disappointed that Nunes didn't respond by saying:

              "MISTER Vindman, will you please answer the question?"
              That would have given the liberals tremendous joy.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                And to respect Vindman for his courage, demonstrated here and on the battlefield, and his overall integrity is not to pretend he does not have flaws.
                You mean Lieutenant Colonel Vindman, right?
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  Just because someone can put on a uniform doesn't automatically make him above reproach.
                  Anyone that "puts on a uniform" to serve his country, who has shrapnel embedded in his body acquired whilst in action and who is the recipient of a purple heart, has done more than Donald Trump has ever done.
                  “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    You falsely accused me of ignoring the facts in favor of smearing Vindman when all I did was quote someone else's sworn testimony.

                    Frankly, you can take that plank out of your eye and shove it up your... well, use your imagination.
                    No MM. You are posting these things against Vindman because you want to participate in the smearing. And now of course, since I point out what you sre not comfortable with, you do exactly as I said, only now aimed at me. When the facts dont suit you, smear the person. It's just who you are.
                    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 11-21-2019, 05:43 AM.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      I'm disappointed that Nunes didn't respond by saying:

                      "MISTER Vindman, will you please answer the question?"
                      Wanting to be referred to by your rank, by civilians, usually makes the requester look like a jerk. I’m usually a little confused when referred to as ‘sergeant’ vs mrs or miss by those in civies (who almost always are military, former military, or USAA over the phone).
                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        When the facts dont suit you, smear the person.
                        What the heck are you talking about?

                        Yes or no: Was it testified under oath that Vindman's professional colleagues were concerned about his poor judgement, and that they believed him to be the source of leaks?

                        I'll give you a hint: The answer is yes!

                        It boggles my mind that you can persist in falsely accusing me of ignoring the facts when all I am doing is literally stating the facts. I don't think I have ever in my life encountered anyone as blatantly hypocritical as you. And, no, that's not a smear, it's a fact.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          What the heck are you talking about?

                          Yes or no: Was it testified under oath that Vindman's professional colleagues were concerned about his poor judgement, and that they believed him to be the source of leaks?

                          I'll give you a hint: The answer is yes!

                          It boggles my mind that you can persist in falsely accusing me of ignoring the facts when all I am doing is literally stating the facts. I don't think I have ever in my life encountered anyone as blatantly hypocritical as you. And, no, that's not a smear, it's a fact.
                          No - you are not 'just stating the facts'. You are trying to smear the man - Along with the rest of the GOP - because you don't like his truthful testimony about what he saw and heard.

                          You can deny it all you want - there is no purpose in posting that gossip as it relates to his testimony other than to smear the man - thus your actions speak far louder than your words.


                          Jim
                          Last edited by oxmixmudd; 11-21-2019, 07:46 AM.
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            You mean Lieutenant Colonel Vindman, right?
                            Sure - If I was to give a title - that would be the title I would use
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                              Wanting to be referred to by your rank, by civilians, usually makes the requester look like a jerk. I’m usually a little confused when referred to as ‘sergeant’ vs mrs or miss by those in civies (who almost always are military, former military, or USAA over the phone).
                              Unless you mention it on introduction - we had an algebra teacher who went by his rank instead of mister. He told us on Day One and we called him Colonel Kirkpatrick ever since - no one thought he was being a jerk.

                              You look like a jerk correcting every little mistake or every person you talk to, however.
                              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                              My Personal Blog

                              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                              Quill Sword

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                No - you are not 'just stating the facts'. You are trying to smear the man - Along with the rest of the GOP...
                                In any legal proceeding, it is perfectly normal and expected to evaluate the credibility of a witness, and just because the plain facts as testified under oath are not favorable to Mr. Vindman does not make them a "smear".

                                But do keep up your hypocritical attack against me. Just be careful you don't dislocate your shoulder trying to pat yourself on the back.
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

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