Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Whistleblower identified

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by dirtfloor View Post
    Schiff tweet on Republicans is spot on:
    Shifty Schiff is the sort of guy that if he tells you the Earth is round, you better carefully research the matter to see if it's true.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      You've described some of the testimony, yes, but you stopped short of any critical analysis, and the so-called "implications" are so colored by your bias and what you so desperately want to be true that they're not even worth discussing.

      On that note, i's baffling to me that you and others who share your thinking are bitterly disappointed every 'time it's proven that our President is innocent of any crimes. Surely any rational person would consider that cause for celebration, but perhaps you're simply not a rational person.
      "proven innocent"

      Like when he payed off Stormy Daniels?

      Like when the transcript of the call shows him doing exactly what the Whistleblower said he did?

      Like when the mueller report has an entire section detailing multiple acts that constitute obstruction?

      Like when he moves to Florida to try to do an end run around a New York State tax evasion investigation? Or to avoid the consequences of his 'tax cuts'?

      And I could go on and on.

      You and the narrative you adhere to consider being proclaimed innocent "not being indicted". And since a sitting president can't be indicted, it will take impeachment and removal from office for you to admit he was guilty of something. And - the sad truth is - even if that happens, you still won't admit it.

      But not charged is NOT proven innocent. Mueller could not clear him of wrong doing. He is not 'innocent'.

      He has never been proven innocent MM. He just hasn't been held accountable for his actions ... yet.
      Last edited by oxmixmudd; 11-03-2019, 06:06 PM.
      He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

      "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        I'll stop you right there and simply note that what you call "implications" are not evidence but simply you trying to back-fill your presumption that the President is guilty. I will repeat: there is zero evidence that anybody in the Ukrainian government was aware that military aid had been temporarily suspended; there is zero evidence that anybody in the Ukrainian government did anything special to get the aid restored; and President Zelensky and other Ukrainian officials have consistently said that there was no pressure to investigate Biden or his son.

        Until we have we clear, hard evidence disproving any of those three facts then the case against Trump is dead in the water. Your problem is that you're being suckered in by Shifty Adam Schiff's selective leaks. For instance, Taylor's testimony, which was touted as particularly "damning" for the benefit of low-info consumers like, was obliterated in 90-seconds by Representative Ratcliffe.

        Vindman had a lot to say about his opinion of Trump's foreign policy, but so what? His opinion is not evidence. He claims he tried to "correct" the official transcript by restoring content, but what evidence do we have that he wasn't trying to add content that was never there in the first place? There were obviously other firsthand witnesses who prevented him from adding his "corrections", which is a significant point. We have also come to find that Vindman had numerous contacts with foreign agents as a member of the National Security Council, and it was almost certainly him who leaked the contents of a confidential presidential phonecall to the "whistleblower", which is possibly a crime (apparently he didn't have the guts to blow the whistle himself). This all speaks to his credibility -- or lack of.

        I could go on, but I think you get the point. Like I said, there's a reason Democrats won't hold these public hearings, and you're just gullible enough to fall it.
        Unfortunately for Trump, it doesn't work that way. While the July phone call may arguably establish a quid pro quo on its own, it's only one piece of evidence.

        Remember the whistleblowers complaint covered a period of around 4 months and it was deemed 'credible and urgent' by the Intelligence Community Inspector General who happens to be a Trump nominee. Taylor and Vindman both supported the whistleblowers report and while Morrison stated that he didn't think Trump did anything illegal, he confirmed that aid was withheld and that the Ukrainians knew it was withheld from at least early August.

        If this doesn't warrant an investigation then what does? Also what is Trumps reason for withholding the aid?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Shifty Schiff is the sort of guy that if he tells you the Earth is round, you better carefully research the matter to see if it's true.
          If you like Trump, Schiff is probably the best guy the Dems have to manage the prosecution.
          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            "proven innocent"

            Like when he payed off Stormy Daniels?
            Not a crime.

            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            Like when the transcript of the call shows him doing exactly what the Whistleblower said he did?
            False. No evidence of quid pro quo. No evidence that President Zelensky was pressured.

            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            Like when the mueller report has an entire section detailing multiple acts that constitute obstruction?
            And for which the Department of Justice found no grounds to press charges.

            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            Like when he moves to Florida to try to do an end run around a New York State tax evasion investigation? Or to avoid the consequences of his 'tax cuts'?
            That's a conspiracy theory I hadn't encountered yet. Perhaps I don't read enough Facebook.

            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            And I could go on and on.
            I'm sure you could.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              That's a conspiracy theory I hadn't encountered yet. Perhaps I don't read enough Facebook.
              Trump’s move to Florida could run into resistance from New York

              Trump wouldn't be the only wealthy person to move from a high-tax state to a low-tax state, especially one that has no State Income Tax.

              President Donald Trump is making his move to Florida official.

              His home state of New York may not let him go without a fight.

              The president, a native of the Queens borough, tweeted on Thursday night that he and his family will be making Palm Beach, Florida, their permanent residence.

              “I cherish New York, and the people of New York, and always will,” Trump tweeted.

              “But unfortunately, despite the fact I pay millions of dollars in city, state and local taxes each year, I have been treated very badly by the political leaders of both the city and state,” he wrote.

              The warm weather isn’t the only reason why someone would want to leave New York for the Sunshine State.

              Florida doesn’t tax personal income, and it has no estate or inheritance tax.

              In New York, the top state income tax rate is 8.82%. Residents of New York City also face top rate of 3.8% on income.

              Making the move is even more appealing now that there’s a $10,000 cap on the state and local tax deduction. The limit is a feature of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, the Trump administration’s overhaul of the tax code.

              “It’s interesting that he created that limitation and now he wants to leave New York for Florida, where he won’t pay state and local taxes,” said Martin Shenkman, an estate planning attorney in Fort Lee, New Jersey.

              However, the president — and any other wealthy New Yorker — should anticipate a fight with the state auditor when it comes to fleeing for more tax-friendly locales.


              Of course, somebody who was very anti-Trump could come up with all kinds of other reasons.
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Watermelon View Post
                While the July phone call may arguably establish a quid pro quo on its own...
                The transcript establishes nothing of the kind, and so far, none of the witnesses who have testified have brought a single piece of hard evidence to corroborate the whistleblower's claims that the Ukrainian government was pressured into investigating Biden in exchange for aid. President Zelensky himself has repeatedly denied this accusation, and one of the witnesses, I forget who, said that whatever Trump did was business as usual for presidential politics and that self-righteous busybodies like you should get over it. Foreign policy and diplomacy is all about give and take, and governments exchanging perfectly legal favors is just how things are done.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Trump’s move to Florida could run into resistance from New York

                  Trump wouldn't be the only wealthy person to move from a high-tax state to a low-tax state, especially one that has no State Income Tax.

                  President Donald Trump is making his move to Florida official.

                  His home state of New York may not let him go without a fight.

                  The president, a native of the Queens borough, tweeted on Thursday night that he and his family will be making Palm Beach, Florida, their permanent residence.

                  “I cherish New York, and the people of New York, and always will,” Trump tweeted.

                  “But unfortunately, despite the fact I pay millions of dollars in city, state and local taxes each year, I have been treated very badly by the political leaders of both the city and state,” he wrote.

                  The warm weather isn’t the only reason why someone would want to leave New York for the Sunshine State.

                  Florida doesn’t tax personal income, and it has no estate or inheritance tax.

                  In New York, the top state income tax rate is 8.82%. Residents of New York City also face top rate of 3.8% on income.

                  Making the move is even more appealing now that there’s a $10,000 cap on the state and local tax deduction. The limit is a feature of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, the Trump administration’s overhaul of the tax code.

                  “It’s interesting that he created that limitation and now he wants to leave New York for Florida, where he won’t pay state and local taxes,” said Martin Shenkman, an estate planning attorney in Fort Lee, New Jersey.

                  However, the president — and any other wealthy New Yorker — should anticipate a fight with the state auditor when it comes to fleeing for more tax-friendly locales.


                  Of course, somebody who was very anti-Trump could come up with all kinds of other reasons.
                  Are you really going to pretend the fact he is under investigation by New York State has nothing to do with it? Or that his own 'punitive to persons in states with higher income tax' (typically democratic) changes in the tax code is not part of it?

                  Now, before you go nuts about you not saying he's NOT running from that prosecution, or NOT trying to escape the consequences of his own tax code changes, understand that you are saying that only an anti-Trump person would come up with 'some other' reason, which is - whether you like it or not - saying that him running from that prosecution could not be a legitimate reason he is leaving New York.

                  And since that is the unavoidable consequence of your comment, I am quite correct to ask how you can pretend the fact he is under investigation in New York State has nothing to do with why he is moving his residence to Florida.

                  Jim
                  Last edited by oxmixmudd; 11-03-2019, 08:03 PM.
                  He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                  "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                    Are you really going to pretend the fact he is under investigation by New York State has nothing to do with it?

                    Now, before you go nuts about you not saying he's NOT running from that prosecution...
                    This is exactly the kind of crap for which I'm done with you.
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      The transcript establishes nothing of the kind, and so far, none of the witnesses who have testified have brought a single piece of hard evidence to corroborate the whistleblower's claims that the Ukrainian government was pressured into investigating Biden in exchange for aid. President Zelensky himself has repeatedly denied this accusation, and one of the witnesses, I forget who, said that whatever Trump did was business as usual for presidential politics and that self-righteous busybodies like you should get over it. Foreign policy and diplomacy is all about give and take, and governments exchanging perfectly legal favors is just how things are done.
                      ............and thats how 'no quid pro quo!' becomes 'quid pro quos are normal in foreign policy! Get over it!'

                      Remember how this was Mulvaney's original position and republicans immediately distanced themselves from it?

                      I guess the 'no quid pro quo angle' didn't work out so it's back here again.

                      And why was the aid held up again? Was it due to lack of EU contribution or was he worried about corruption in Ukraine? Why was it eventually released after being withheld for over four months?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        Shifty Schiff is the sort of guy that if he tells you the Earth is round, you better carefully research the matter to see if it's true.
                        As opposed to President Trump's torrent of misleading statements and flat-out lies you mean. You can't be serious.
                        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          This is exactly the kind of crap for which I'm done with you.
                          look CP, you get angry at things I say for reasons I can't predict or anticipate. I've been trying, but you are really out there in terms of figuring out what will set you off. So you can either accept the fact I'm trying and that I can't figure out what bugs you or there just isn't any way to communicate. That is just the way it is. I can't meet whatever your standard is. I've tried. So the rest is up to you. You can hate me for it, or you can find some patience or tolerance or whatever it is you need to get along with me.


                          Jim
                          He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                          "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            look CP, you get angry at things I say
                            No, Jim. This 'anger' thing is all in your head. I have ZERO anger toward you. None whatsoever.

                            I actually feel sorry for you. You are CONSUMED with Trump, and you're seeing everything through that lens.

                            =====================
                            I had actually typed a lengthy response to your false representation of what I said, but it dawned on me that it doesn't matter a hill of beans.
                            You're going to see what you want to see.

                            Still done.
                            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              No, Jim. This 'anger' thing is all in your head. I have ZERO anger toward you. None whatsoever.

                              I actually feel sorry for you. You are CONSUMED with Trump, and you're seeing everything through that lens.

                              =====================
                              I had actually typed a lengthy response to your false representation of what I said, but it dawned on me that it doesn't matter a hill of beans.
                              You're going to see what you want to see.

                              Still done.
                              Oh good grief. Fine - be done. At least then your perverted mind games are over.

                              Jim
                              He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                              "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                Oh good grief. Fine - be done. At least then your perverted mind games are over.

                                Jim
                                "perverted mind games" And you wonder why you have no friends.
                                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by Mountain Man, Yesterday, 04:57 PM
                                10 responses
                                66 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Reepicheep, Yesterday, 10:05 AM
                                34 responses
                                215 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post seanD
                                by seanD
                                 
                                Started by seer, Yesterday, 06:05 AM
                                23 responses
                                125 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Maranatha, 10-27-2020, 10:58 PM
                                50 responses
                                354 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post kiwimac
                                by kiwimac
                                 
                                Started by rogue06, 10-27-2020, 03:56 PM
                                3 responses
                                35 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Ronson
                                by Ronson
                                 
                                Working...
                                X