Originally posted by dirtfloor
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostYou've described some of the testimony, yes, but you stopped short of any critical analysis, and the so-called "implications" are so colored by your bias and what you so desperately want to be true that they're not even worth discussing.
On that note, i's baffling to me that you and others who share your thinking are bitterly disappointed every 'time it's proven that our President is innocent of any crimes. Surely any rational person would consider that cause for celebration, but perhaps you're simply not a rational person.
Like when he payed off Stormy Daniels?
Like when the transcript of the call shows him doing exactly what the Whistleblower said he did?
Like when the mueller report has an entire section detailing multiple acts that constitute obstruction?
Like when he moves to Florida to try to do an end run around a New York State tax evasion investigation? Or to avoid the consequences of his 'tax cuts'?
And I could go on and on.
You and the narrative you adhere to consider being proclaimed innocent "not being indicted". And since a sitting president can't be indicted, it will take impeachment and removal from office for you to admit he was guilty of something. And - the sad truth is - even if that happens, you still won't admit it.
But not charged is NOT proven innocent. Mueller could not clear him of wrong doing. He is not 'innocent'.
He has never been proven innocent MM. He just hasn't been held accountable for his actions ... yet.Last edited by oxmixmudd; 11-03-2019, 05:06 PM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostI'll stop you right there and simply note that what you call "implications" are not evidence but simply you trying to back-fill your presumption that the President is guilty. I will repeat: there is zero evidence that anybody in the Ukrainian government was aware that military aid had been temporarily suspended; there is zero evidence that anybody in the Ukrainian government did anything special to get the aid restored; and President Zelensky and other Ukrainian officials have consistently said that there was no pressure to investigate Biden or his son.
Until we have we clear, hard evidence disproving any of those three facts then the case against Trump is dead in the water. Your problem is that you're being suckered in by Shifty Adam Schiff's selective leaks. For instance, Taylor's testimony, which was touted as particularly "damning" for the benefit of low-info consumers like, was obliterated in 90-seconds by Representative Ratcliffe.
Vindman had a lot to say about his opinion of Trump's foreign policy, but so what? His opinion is not evidence. He claims he tried to "correct" the official transcript by restoring content, but what evidence do we have that he wasn't trying to add content that was never there in the first place? There were obviously other firsthand witnesses who prevented him from adding his "corrections", which is a significant point. We have also come to find that Vindman had numerous contacts with foreign agents as a member of the National Security Council, and it was almost certainly him who leaked the contents of a confidential presidential phonecall to the "whistleblower", which is possibly a crime (apparently he didn't have the guts to blow the whistle himself). This all speaks to his credibility -- or lack of.
I could go on, but I think you get the point. Like I said, there's a reason Democrats won't hold these public hearings, and you're just gullible enough to fall it.
Remember the whistleblowers complaint covered a period of around 4 months and it was deemed 'credible and urgent' by the Intelligence Community Inspector General who happens to be a Trump nominee. Taylor and Vindman both supported the whistleblowers report and while Morrison stated that he didn't think Trump did anything illegal, he confirmed that aid was withheld and that the Ukrainians knew it was withheld from at least early August.
If this doesn't warrant an investigation then what does? Also what is Trumps reason for withholding the aid?
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostShifty Schiff is the sort of guy that if he tells you the Earth is round, you better carefully research the matter to see if it's true.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post"proven innocent"
Like when he payed off Stormy Daniels?
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostLike when the transcript of the call shows him doing exactly what the Whistleblower said he did?
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostLike when the mueller report has an entire section detailing multiple acts that constitute obstruction?
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostLike when he moves to Florida to try to do an end run around a New York State tax evasion investigation? Or to avoid the consequences of his 'tax cuts'?
Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostAnd I could go on and on.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThat's a conspiracy theory I hadn't encountered yet. Perhaps I don't read enough Facebook.
Trump wouldn't be the only wealthy person to move from a high-tax state to a low-tax state, especially one that has no State Income Tax.
President Donald Trump is making his move to Florida official.
His home state of New York may not let him go without a fight.
The president, a native of the Queens borough, tweeted on Thursday night that he and his family will be making Palm Beach, Florida, their permanent residence.
“I cherish New York, and the people of New York, and always will,” Trump tweeted.
“But unfortunately, despite the fact I pay millions of dollars in city, state and local taxes each year, I have been treated very badly by the political leaders of both the city and state,” he wrote.
The warm weather isn’t the only reason why someone would want to leave New York for the Sunshine State.
Florida doesn’t tax personal income, and it has no estate or inheritance tax.
In New York, the top state income tax rate is 8.82%. Residents of New York City also face top rate of 3.8% on income.
Making the move is even more appealing now that there’s a $10,000 cap on the state and local tax deduction. The limit is a feature of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, the Trump administration’s overhaul of the tax code.
“It’s interesting that he created that limitation and now he wants to leave New York for Florida, where he won’t pay state and local taxes,” said Martin Shenkman, an estate planning attorney in Fort Lee, New Jersey.
However, the president — and any other wealthy New Yorker — should anticipate a fight with the state auditor when it comes to fleeing for more tax-friendly locales.
Of course, somebody who was very anti-Trump could come up with all kinds of other reasons.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostWhile the July phone call may arguably establish a quid pro quo on its own...Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostTrump’s move to Florida could run into resistance from New York
Trump wouldn't be the only wealthy person to move from a high-tax state to a low-tax state, especially one that has no State Income Tax.
President Donald Trump is making his move to Florida official.
His home state of New York may not let him go without a fight.
The president, a native of the Queens borough, tweeted on Thursday night that he and his family will be making Palm Beach, Florida, their permanent residence.
“I cherish New York, and the people of New York, and always will,” Trump tweeted.
“But unfortunately, despite the fact I pay millions of dollars in city, state and local taxes each year, I have been treated very badly by the political leaders of both the city and state,” he wrote.
The warm weather isn’t the only reason why someone would want to leave New York for the Sunshine State.
Florida doesn’t tax personal income, and it has no estate or inheritance tax.
In New York, the top state income tax rate is 8.82%. Residents of New York City also face top rate of 3.8% on income.
Making the move is even more appealing now that there’s a $10,000 cap on the state and local tax deduction. The limit is a feature of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, the Trump administration’s overhaul of the tax code.
“It’s interesting that he created that limitation and now he wants to leave New York for Florida, where he won’t pay state and local taxes,” said Martin Shenkman, an estate planning attorney in Fort Lee, New Jersey.
However, the president — and any other wealthy New Yorker — should anticipate a fight with the state auditor when it comes to fleeing for more tax-friendly locales.
Of course, somebody who was very anti-Trump could come up with all kinds of other reasons.
Now, before you go nuts about you not saying he's NOT running from that prosecution, or NOT trying to escape the consequences of his own tax code changes, understand that you are saying that only an anti-Trump person would come up with 'some other' reason, which is - whether you like it or not - saying that him running from that prosecution could not be a legitimate reason he is leaving New York.
And since that is the unavoidable consequence of your comment, I am quite correct to ask how you can pretend the fact he is under investigation in New York State has nothing to do with why he is moving his residence to Florida.
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 11-03-2019, 07:03 PM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostAre you really going to pretend the fact he is under investigation by New York State has nothing to do with it?
Now, before you go nuts about you not saying he's NOT running from that prosecution...The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThe transcript establishes nothing of the kind, and so far, none of the witnesses who have testified have brought a single piece of hard evidence to corroborate the whistleblower's claims that the Ukrainian government was pressured into investigating Biden in exchange for aid. President Zelensky himself has repeatedly denied this accusation, and one of the witnesses, I forget who, said that whatever Trump did was business as usual for presidential politics and that self-righteous busybodies like you should get over it. Foreign policy and diplomacy is all about give and take, and governments exchanging perfectly legal favors is just how things are done.
Remember how this was Mulvaney's original position and republicans immediately distanced themselves from it?
I guess the 'no quid pro quo angle' didn't work out so it's back here again.
And why was the aid held up again? Was it due to lack of EU contribution or was he worried about corruption in Ukraine? Why was it eventually released after being withheld for over four months?
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostShifty Schiff is the sort of guy that if he tells you the Earth is round, you better carefully research the matter to see if it's true.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThis is exactly the kind of crap for which I'm done with you.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Postlook CP, you get angry at things I say
I actually feel sorry for you. You are CONSUMED with Trump, and you're seeing everything through that lens.
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I had actually typed a lengthy response to your false representation of what I said, but it dawned on me that it doesn't matter a hill of beans.
You're going to see what you want to see.
Still done.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostNo, Jim. This 'anger' thing is all in your head. I have ZERO anger toward you. None whatsoever.
I actually feel sorry for you. You are CONSUMED with Trump, and you're seeing everything through that lens.
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I had actually typed a lengthy response to your false representation of what I said, but it dawned on me that it doesn't matter a hill of beans.
You're going to see what you want to see.
Still done.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostOh good grief. Fine - be done. At least then your perverted mind games are over.
JimThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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