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Open Skies Treaty

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  • Open Skies Treaty

    Another gift to Putin?

    Reports suggest that US President Donald Trump has already signed a document giving the necessary six months' notice for withdrawal, though his administration still seems divided as to whether this treaty should be maintained. Former Defence Secretary James Mattis, while still serving in his post, declared that it was in the United States' "best interests" to remain in the treaty despite the alleged Russian violations.

    Indeed the statistics are striking. The US has flown three times as many flights annually over Russia as the Russians have flown over the US. Between 2002 and 2016 there were 196 US flight plans logged versus 71 by Russia. In addition the US can request copies of the imagery from flights conducted by other signatories. Since 2002 there have been more than 500 such flights over Russia. During recent years, Russia has flown between four and nine missions each year over the US, while the US has flown between 14 and 16 flights over Russia.

    One former diplomat says: 'Sometimes the only way to explain/predict Trump's foreign policy is to think "what would Putin want the US to do?"'
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
    “not all there” - you know who you are

  • #2
    Would it really be so difficult, my crisis management / problem resolution friend, to add the cite from which this wealth of information comes?
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

    Comment


    • #3
      US-Russia surveillance flights treaty under threat https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50220948

      And many other sources have this story.
      “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
      “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
      “not all there” - you know who you are

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
        US-Russia surveillance flights treaty under threat https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50220948

        And many other sources have this story.
        Yeah, not finding anything that seems to justify this.
        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

        Comment


        • #5
          https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/_ca...eaty-final.pdf

          This looks like Trump (Putin’s POTUS) opening the door to more Russian aggression in Ukraine, maybe.
          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
          “not all there” - you know who you are

          Comment


          • #6
            Help me out, firstfloor, I can't tell if this is your usual trolling or genuine dumbness.
            Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
              Help me out, firstfloor, I can't tell if this is your usual trolling or genuine dumbness.
              This is in the news. Very important for monitoring troop movements and the like, and stuff that satellites cannot do easily.
              “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
              “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
              “not all there” - you know who you are

              Comment


              • #8
                The North Sea near chez firstfloor.

                20097667-12B4-4B0F-92A1-D847F7724487.jpeg
                “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                “not all there” - you know who you are

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                  This is in the news. Very important for monitoring troop movements and the like, and stuff that satellites cannot do easily.
                  I think you'd be quite surprised what satellites, combined with AI, could do quite easily. And drones.
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                    Very important for monitoring troop movements and the like, and stuff that satellites cannot do easily.
                    Ok, so it's dumb ignorance.
                    Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                      Ok, so it's dumb ignorance.
                      I know your limitations, so here is a little more explanation of the issue. If you look at the detail you can see Trump’s puppet master at work.

                      The Open Skies Treaty includes 32 other countries but it’s really all about the US and Russia. The countries have nuclear arsenals and militaries that dwarf any in the accord and staying in it allows both to gain critical information on each other. What’s more, the imagery they collect is shared among all the signatories, giving some less technologically advanced nations their only source of overhead intelligence. That’s important for, say, Ukraine, a treaty member that wants to know about Russian military movements on its border.

                      But should the US leave the deal, Russia will likely bow out, too. That would mean in one fell swoop Washington would lose an important way to keep tabs on Moscow’s weapons development, worsen already bad relations with the Kremlin, and take away a vital intelligence tool from American allies.

                      “Withdrawal risks dividing the transatlantic alliance and would further undermine America’s reliability as a stable and predictable partner when it comes to European security,” Rep. Eliot Engel, the House Foreign Affairs Committee chair, wrote in a letter to National Security Adviser Robert O’Brien this week. “[I] strongly urge you against such a reckless action.”
                      Ukraine being blinded by Trump, helps Russia.
                      “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                      “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                      “not all there” - you know who you are

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        I think you'd be quite surprised what satellites, combined with AI, could do quite easily. And drones.
                        I remember reading years ago that military satellites could not only tell you there was a man sitting on a park bench reading a newspaper but could actually show you the newspaper's date. Perhaps an exaggeration, but it's generally the case that military technology is far more advanced than the general public is aware of.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dirtfloor View Post
                          I know your limitations, so here is a little more explanation of the issue. If you look at the detail you can see Trump’s puppet master at work.



                          Ukraine being blinded by Trump, helps Russia.
                          Looks like you're quoting opinion pieces. How about a source that focuses on just the facts?
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            I remember reading years ago that military satellites could not only tell you there was a man sitting on a park bench reading a newspaper but could actually show you the newspaper's date. Perhaps an exaggeration, but it's generally the case that military technology is far more advanced than the general public is aware of.
                            The handicap of using only satellite coverage is that those are on known schedules.
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              The handicap of using only satellite coverage is that those are on known schedules.
                              Hence, the drones.

                              (But I love it when MaGee sits there in NCIS headquarters and retasks a satellite* to watch somebody's car driving up I95, triggering every red light camera and mom&pop grocery store security camera)





                              *please don't tell me MaGee can't actually do that!
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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