The obvious has been officially confirmed ...

[Cow Poke]

I don't think anyone is proposing that just accusing the president is sufficient.

Ummmm..... he is routinely called a criminal and worse on this very site.

There has to be actual abuse of power that can be shown objectively.

Absolutely.

But that isn't an issue in the case of Mr. Trump. It's just a matter of determining if the abuse itself so egregious it warrants impeachment.


Jim

And, again, if the Democrat leadership hadn't been so spiteful and hate-filled since BEFORE Trump was even POTUS, it would be easier to see this as an "objective" prosecution.

[oxmixmudd]

You beat me to it.... "Abuse of power" is an accusation, which must then be supported by fact. If it's actually a crime, that has to be proven, not simply alleged.

I don't think anyone is proposing that just accusing the president is sufficient. There has to be actual abuse of power that can be shown objectively.

But that isn't an issue in the case of Mr. Trump. It's just a matter of determining if the abuse itself so egregious it warrants impeachment.


Jim

[Cow Poke]

"Abuse of power" is a category of crimes and not a crime in and of itself....

You beat me to it.... "Abuse of power" is an accusation, which must then be supported by fact. If it's actually a crime, that has to be proven, not simply alleged.

[Mountain Man]

Like I said, as far as the President is concerned, "abuse of power" is a crime...

"Abuse of power" is a category of crimes and not a crime in and of itself. You still need to name an actual crime at least as serious as bribery and treason before impeachment is warranted, per the Constitution.

...there is also much evidence of many criminal acts by Trump and his administration...

Then why haven't Democrats released the evidence and voted to impeach already, if the facts are really that cut and dried? Why the endless "investigations", and why are they now floating the unconstitutional notion that a president doesn't actually need to be guilty of a crime to be impeached?

It's time to take off the tinfoil hat and put on your thinking cap, because the answers are pretty obvious.

[JimL]

Yes it is, and quite clearly. Two explicit examples are provided -- treason and bribery -- illustrating the nature and seriousness of the crime that would compel impeachment. Anything short of that does not warrant impeachment, per the Constitution.

Like I said, as far as the President is concerned, "abuse of power" is a crime, and abuse of power circumscribes many things that are not actual crimes and it is left to Congress to both investigate and adjudicate. Read the Federalist Papers and Alexander Hamilton. But again, along with the abuse of power, there is also much evidence of many criminal acts by Trump and his administration, criminal acts which you chose to ignore and snip out of my previous post.

[oxmixmudd]

No, they're not, and the fact that you can't see that is a large part of your problem. What you call "the simple facts" are so loaded up with unfounded assumptions and idle speculation that you've effectively left fact behind and entered the land of fiction.

We will soon see how well your assessment actually holds

.

[Mountain Man]

MM - what you call paranoid delusions are the simple facts of the case.

No, they're not, and the fact that you can't see that is a large part of your problem. What you call "the simple facts" are so loaded up with unfounded assumptions and idle speculation that you've effectively left fact behind and entered the land of fiction.

[oxmixmudd]

Says the guy continually lumps me in with his enemies.

You're not my enemy just because you have a different opinion than I do - where do you get 'lump me in with my enemies? I included you in the list because you were expressing the same sort of ideas. Ideas I don't understand. And which I tried to ask questions to help sort out in the post you gave up on.

Jim

[Cow Poke]

You are seeing something that isn't there CP. But I'll keep trying.

Says the guy continually lumps me in with his enemies.

[oxmixmudd]

No sir, I've been trying.



Never said you did - I said you're grouping me in with others with whom you appear to be at war.



Except I respond to you as a person, Jim - you're so fixated on Trump that you group anybody who opposes you together.

You are seeing something that isn't there CP. But I'll keep trying.

[Cow Poke]

You give up way too easily CP.

No sir, I've been trying.

First, I'm not attacking you.

Never said you did - I said you're grouping me in with others with whom you appear to be at war.

I'm trying very hard to work with you. And I assure you, you are not the only one that sees the other fellows responses as outside what is reasonable given what was said.

It takes two CP.

Jim

Except I respond to you as a person, Jim - you're so fixated on Trump that you group anybody who opposes you together.

[oxmixmudd]

I give up.

You give up way too easily CP.

First, I'm not attacking you. I'm trying very hard to work with you. And I assure you, you are not the only one that sees the other fellows responses as outside what is reasonable given what was said. And yet, compare the two. I'm not jumping down your throat. I'm trying to understand you.

It takes two CP.

Jim

[lilpixieofterror]

Another failure to present any substance. That's 3 in a row!

But I know you are capable if you put your mind to it, and I can be patient.

Jim

Substance is give to those who provide it. Which you don’t. Too bad you just want to be a bitter old man... what a waste.

[Cow Poke]

I don't see how CP.

I give up.

[oxmixmudd]

Pot, meet kettle. Beyond your, “This is so terrible, why do you support such a person!!!” what do you bring to the table? Blanket accusations, partisan spin, your own belief that Trump is the Antichrist and supporting him, or not freaking out every time something happens makes you a horrible person, etc is what you bring to the table. In other words, nothing.

Another failure to present any substance. That's 3 in a row!

But I know you are capable if you put your mind to it, and I can be patient.

Jim