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  • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Claiming that someone said "faked" when they said "edited" is indeed a falsehood, Mr. Nitpick. Funny how you allow for imprecision if you can use it to bludgeon one of your favourite targets.
    If a video is edited in order to alter it's understanding, then how is that different than being faked. It's just semantics!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      Claiming that someone said "faked" when they said "edited" is indeed a falsehood, Mr. Nitpick. Funny how you allow for imprecision if you can use it to bludgeon one of your favourite targets.
      Well here we have one clue as to why there is such a great divide here. If you change the truthful character of the video so that it not longer reflects what actually happened, it become 'fake' - as in no longer real, no longer accurate. Now that can be a mistake, a result of the selection algorithm for the time lapse (though that would imply the 'peak' was very short-lived and unlikely to make much difference) or it was done purposefully to mislead. If the person doing the editing purposefully removed the maximum extent of the crowd so as to create the impression the mall was never actually full, then 'the video was faked' as an absolutely correct assessment.

      IT IS THE LATTER THAT IS THE ACCUSATION FROM MM ABOUT THE VIDEO. And that accusation exists to explain why the time lapse video NEVER shows the Mall any fuller than the pictures marked as taken at the time of the inauguration from the Washington Monument. It's all about Truth vs Fiction. And MM, and apparently you as well, would prefer the fiction that says somehow something was wrong with the raw data that shows large areas of the mall EMPTY at all times of the day near the Washington Monument.

      It is this very issue MM and so many of you have with simple, objective truth that is causing the great divide we see here.

      This is simple, objective stuff, and yet those of you on the Trump side of the fence will not and can not accept these simple, objective facts and truths. And it permeates EVERY discussion we have.


      Jim
      Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-30-2019, 10:32 AM.
      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

      Comment


      • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        Claiming that someone said "faked" when they said "edited" is indeed a falsehood, Mr. Nitpick.
        But I didn't claim that he actually used the word "faked", only that that was the gist of his comment.
        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
          If a video is edited in order to alter it's understanding, then how is that different than being faked. It's just semantics!
          Actually it goes to intent. Videos are altered all the time. When somebody does a lengthy interview, there are often excerpts that are used to represent the entire interview due to time limits on broadcasting.

          If the video is edited purposefully to distort the message, it's faked.
          If the video is edited for time, but the message remains true, it's "edited".

          It then can become a source of contention whether the video (edited for time) was done so in such a manner as to misrepresent the person being interviewed, or topic being covered.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            Well here we have one clue as to why there is such a great divide here. If you change the truthful character of the video so that it not longer reflects what actually happened, it because 'fake' - as in no longer real. If the person doing the editing purposefully removed the maximum extent of the crowd so as to create the impression the mall was never actually full, then 'the video was faked' as an absolutely correct assessment.

            IT IS THE LATTER THAT IS THE ACCUSATION FROM MM ABOUT THE VIDEO. And that accusation exists to explain why the time lapse video NEVER shows the Mall any fuller than the pictures marked as taken at the time of the inauguration from the Washington Monument. It's all about Truth vs Fiction. And MM, and apparently you as well, would prefer the fiction that says somehow something was wrong with the raw data that shows large areas of the mall EMPTY at all times of the day near the Washington Monument.

            It is this very issue MM and so many of you have with simple, objective truth that is causing the great divide we see here.

            This is simple, objective stuff, and yet those of you on the Trump side of the fence will not and can not accept these simple, objective facts and truths. And it permeates EVERY discussion we have.


            Jim
            Nah, you’re wrong. The issue of why you’re incapable of having an honest discussion about Trump is you view Trump as the Antichrist and everything he says and does, is viewed through that same panic mode lens.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • My two cents on "faked" vs "edited:" when I think about a video being faked, I think of images being altered or staged, or in the case of the crowd size thing maybe photos from another event used deceptively, or something along those lines. So just in a general sense I would regard referring to MM's comments as calling the video "fake" to be an unfair characterization.
              I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                Well here we have one clue as to why there is such a great divide here. If you change the truthful character of the video so that it not longer reflects what actually happened, it become 'fake' - as in no longer real, no longer accurate. Now that can be a mistake, a result of the selection algorithm for the time lapse (though that would imply the 'peak' was very short-lived and unlikely to make much difference) or it was done purposefully to mislead. If the person doing the editing purposefully removed the maximum extent of the crowd so as to create the impression the mall was never actually full, then 'the video was faked' as an absolutely correct assessment.

                IT IS THE LATTER THAT IS THE ACCUSATION FROM MM ABOUT THE VIDEO. And that accusation exists to explain why the time lapse video NEVER shows the Mall any fuller than the pictures marked as taken at the time of the inauguration from the Washington Monument. It's all about Truth vs Fiction. And MM, and apparently you as well, would prefer the fiction that says somehow something was wrong with the raw data that shows large areas of the mall EMPTY at all times of the day near the Washington Monument.

                It is this very issue MM and so many of you have with simple, objective truth that is causing the great divide we see here.

                This is simple, objective stuff, and yet those of you on the Trump side of the fence will not and can not accept these simple, objective facts and truths. And it permeates EVERY discussion we have.


                Jim
                I'm not interested in discussing this with you, Jim. Thanks.
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Actually it goes to intent. Videos are altered all the time. When somebody does a lengthy interview, there are often excerpts that are used to represent the entire interview due to time limits on broadcasting.

                  If the video is edited purposefully to distort the message, it's faked.
                  If the video is edited for time, but the message remains true, it's "edited".

                  It then can become a source of contention whether the video (edited for time) was done so in such a manner as to misrepresent the person being interviewed, or topic being covered.
                  The issue here is was any potential inaccuracy in the time lapse purposeful. Could 'editing for time' explain the large open areas towards the monument seen across the entire day.

                  1) What was the potential inaccuracy of a timelapse:

                  In a 'non-fake' timelapse, the stills used in the timelapse will be selected at a certain interval. Say one still every 30 seconds or every minute. Played back at 30fps it speeds up the changes in the crowd size of the mall significantly. Nevertheless, even if only 1 frame is taken every 5 minutes, that still only allows a 5 minute window for the mall to fill up beyond what was posted and then driain enough not to notice a change. If the selection interval was 5 minutes and covered a 12 hour period, that would produce a video that was 60/5*12 = 144/30 = 4.8 seconds long. Given that time lapse is longer than 5 seconds, the selection interval is < 5 minutes.

                  2) Is it therefore possible to 'accidentally' create an inaccurate timelapse that significantly altered the apparent size of the crowd.

                  No, the crowd size could not grow and drain fast enough in the selection interval time-frame to make any significant difference.

                  Conclusion 1: If the time lapse was 'edited' as MM claims and it does not show the true full extent of the crowed, at least as to the possible variation in size over the selection interval, then someone with malicious intent removed ALL* those frames that would show that additional extent (which would require thousands of people to fill the open areas).

                  Conclusion 2: since there is no accidental means of producing a time lapse that shows any significant reduction in actual crowd size, the accusation of 'editing' as an explanation for the large gaps near the washington monument never being filled is in fact an accusation that the time lapse video was 'faked' (purposefully altered) in order to show a smaller maximum crowd size.


                  Jim

                  *one could maintain no stills were ever taken during the largest portions of the crowd (i.e. a 'gap' in the sampling of the camera) - but this can be shown to be false per my previous analysis where the hi res picture from the capitol used by MM and others to claim the back towards the mall was full was shown to match - taking into account perspective - the picture taken at the same time from the Washington Monument which shows large open gaps - which means there were in fact stills taken during the largest extent of the crowd and given Trumps speech was also much longer than the selection interval, that extent would have existed much longer than the selection interval.
                  Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-30-2019, 10:59 AM.
                  My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                  If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                  This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                    The issue here is was...
                    I'm aware of the issue, Jim, and the fact that this has been rehashed over and over and over and over....

                    I don't have a dog in this fight - I was simply commenting on the fact that the difference between "editing" and "faking" comes down to intent.

                    I also do not wish to discuss this with you.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Actually it goes to intent. Videos are altered all the time. When somebody does a lengthy interview, there are often excerpts that are used to represent the entire interview due to time limits on broadcasting.

                      If the video is edited purposefully to distort the message, it's faked.
                      If the video is edited for time, but the message remains true, it's "edited".
                      So if a video is edited to never show the crowd at its peak, is that sufficient distortion to qualify as being faked?
                      I don't have a dog in this fight - I was simply commenting on the fact that the difference between "editing" and "faking" comes down to intent.
                      Exactly. The intent was given.
                      Last edited by Roy; 10-30-2019, 11:07 AM.
                      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                      seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                        So if a video is edited to never show the crowd at its peak, is that sufficient distortion to qualify as being faked?
                        I'm not getting involved in that, Roy -- I didn't pay much attention to it at the time, and - like I told Ox, I really don't have a dog in that fight.

                        (I edited your post cause it appeared you had a "close quote" instead of a "close italic". The intent, of course, was clarity, not obfuscation or deception)
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          I'm aware of the issue, Jim, and the fact that this has been rehashed over and over and over and over....

                          I don't have a dog in this fight - I was simply commenting on the fact that the difference between "editing" and "faking" comes down to intent.

                          I also do not wish to discuss this with you.
                          That is fine, but your argument is flawed. As I showed in the post you cut, there is no accidental way for the time lapse to have been constructed that does NOT show the full extent of the crowd. Therefore, if the time lapse was inaccurate as to crowd size, it was purposefully faked. It is not a matter of opinion. Either the time lapse shows the reality of the crowd size, or it was faked.

                          Jim
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            I'm not interested in discussing this with you, Jim. Thanks.
                            That does not surprise me even a little bit OBP.

                            What I see in that is that when the data is objective, the people on the objectively wrong side no longer want to talk.


                            Jim
                            Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-30-2019, 11:09 AM.
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              I'm not getting involved in that, Roy -- I didn't pay much attention to it at the time, and - like I told Ox, I really don't have a dog in that fight.

                              (I edited your post cause it appeared you had a "close quote" instead of a "close italic". The intent, of course, was clarity, not obfuscation or deception)
                              Yeah, I just fixed it.
                              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                              seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                That does not surprise me even a little bit OBP.

                                What I see in that is that when the data is objective, the people on the objectively wrong side no longer want to talk.


                                Jim
                                Your opinion is duly noted, Jim. It is wholly unrelated to why I am not interested in discussing this with you.
                                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                                sigpic
                                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                                Comment

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