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  • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
    I'm not sure if you're being serious or sarcastic.
    Quite serious.

    Legal experts -- Dersh, at the very least -- have noted that the Framers were concerned that it *not* be a "political" process, at least in the *partisan* sense, else it effectively makes the Executive branch subordinate to the Legislative branch, obviating separation of powers and remaking our system into a de facto parliamentary system which it was never intended to be.
    Regardless what the framers intended, it has become a political weapon. A case in point is the way the Democrats are handling the "official" beginning of the impeachment proceedings. They can't even decide what to call it, and can't go for a full vote of the House to proceed because they want to provide cover for Democrats in some districts NOT to be on the record as being "for" impeachment. And for political reasons.

    If there are grounds for impeachment, the political calculation comes in - "what if we vote to impeach in the House, but we know the Senate will not convict"....

    It's entirely political. It's certainly not a "legal" proceeding.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Quite serious.



      Regardless what the framers intended, it has become a political weapon. A case in point is the way the Democrats are handling the "official" beginning of the impeachment proceedings. They can't even decide what to call it, and can't go for a full vote of the House to proceed because they want to provide cover for Democrats in some districts NOT to be on the record as being "for" impeachment. And for political reasons.

      If there are grounds for impeachment, the political calculation comes in - "what if we vote to impeach in the House, but we know the Senate will not convict"....

      It's entirely political. It's certainly not a "legal" proceeding.
      Calling it political, doesn't change the underlying facts of the investigation. It's when you don't have the facts on your side that you argue process!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
        Calling it political, doesn't change the underlying facts of the investigation.
        Never said it did, Jim. And I'm not "calling" it political for any other reason than that's what it has become.

        It's when you don't have the facts on your side that you argue process!
        I thought we were buds now, Jim? I'm not "arguing" anything. It is what it is. If Trump is guilty of something for which he needs to be impeached, let the process play out, whatever it is.

        What, exactly, is your point?
        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
          It's when you don't have the facts on your side that you argue process!
          Is that why Democrats are cavalierly inventing their own impeachment process with secret hearings, because the facts aren't on their side?
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            Is that why Democrats are cavalierly inventing their own impeachment process with secret hearings, because the facts aren't on their side?
            What exactly do you mean by secret hearings, MM. Are you under the impression that there are no republicans at the hearings asking questions of the witnesses? Is that it?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Never said it did, Jim. And I'm not "calling" it political for any other reason than that's what it has become.



              I thought we were buds now, Jim? I'm not "arguing" anything. It is what it is. If Trump is guilty of something for which he needs to be impeached, let the process play out, whatever it is.

              What, exactly, is your point?
              My point is that you asserted that the Congressional investigation is entirely political, insinuating that it's just a Congressional dog and pony show. It isn't. It's a serious matter, and the democrats in charge are making sure that it isn't turned into a dog and pony show.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                My point is that you asserted that the Congressional investigation is entirely political,
                Then you'd be able to provide a quote where I actually "asserted" that, yes?

                insinuating that it's just a Congressional dog and pony show.
                Jim, is incredibly partisan - that's really undeniable.

                It isn't. It's a serious matter, and the democrats in charge are making sure that it isn't turned into a dog and pony show.
                Serious matter or not, the Democrats are acting like a bunch of jackasses, and Schiff is the ring leader.

                They've been at this forever, Jim, and it's one "serious matter" after another after another... and it is clearly partisan.
                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
                  What exactly do you mean by secret hearings, MM. Are you under the impression that there are no republicans at the hearings asking questions of the witnesses? Is that it?
                  I mean the fact that the hearings are taking place behind closed doors out of public view.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    I mean the fact that the hearings are taking place behind closed doors out of public view.
                    As I noted in another thread, ostensibly this is done so that Trump doesn't know what sort of evidence they uncover which is a ridiculous claim. You can bet your last dollar that Trump is being kept informed by some of the Republicans on the committee about what is going on so the only ones left in the dark is the American public. And that is why the hearings are secret. This way the only thing we hear is what Schiff wants released -- complete with his usual "spin[1]."






                    1. Like his supposed "parody" of what Trump said to Zelensky that was reported as being actual quotes.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      As I noted in another thread, ostensibly this is done so that Trump doesn't know what sort of evidence they uncover which is a ridiculous claim. You can bet your last dollar that Trump is being kept informed by some of the Republicans on the committee about what is going on so the only ones left in the dark is the American public. And that is why the hearings are secret. This way the only thing we hear is what Schiff wants released -- complete with his usual "spin[1]."






                      1. Like his supposed "parody" of what Trump said to Zelensky that was reported as being actual quotes.

                      Bill Taylor reportedly contradicted Gordon Sonderland's claim that he wasn't aware of Trump's specific interest in investigating Biden and Burisma, with associated documentation.

                      The depositions are not public for the same reason that most, if not all, depositions are not public: to prevent witness collaboration and to facilitate fact-finding. Y'all weren't complaining about the Benghazi depositions occurring in closed-door sessions so don't go caterwauling now. It's just blatant special pleading.

                      --Sam
                      "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                        Bill Taylor reportedly contradicted Gordon Sonderland's claim that he wasn't aware of Trump's specific interest in investigating Biden and Burisma, with associated documentation.
                        A) "reportedly" - as in more leaked testimony?
                        2) when two persons contradict each other, the one who is most damaging to Trump is absolutely telling the truth
                        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                          Bill Taylor reportedly contradicted Gordon Sonderland's claim that he wasn't aware of Trump's specific interest in investigating Biden and Burisma, with associated documentation.

                          The depositions are not public for the same reason that most, if not all, depositions are not public: to prevent witness collaboration and to facilitate fact-finding. Y'all weren't complaining about the Benghazi depositions occurring in closed-door sessions so don't go caterwauling now. It's just blatant special pleading.

                          --Sam
                          Yeah, that's the latest spin being offered by Schiff but the problem is he has in effect appointed himself special prosecutor and seized the powers that go with it. And I don't think anyone in his right mind thinks Schiff is even remotely qualified for the position he has claimed.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            A) "reportedly" - as in more leaked testimony?
                            2) when two persons contradict each other, the one who is most damaging to Trump is absolutely telling the truth
                            That's the problem. All we get to hear is what Schiff and crew want to be leaked -- and with his "spin" on it. The same sort of spin that produced that fake quote from Trump that he read into testimony.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              Yeah, that's the latest spin being offered by Schiff but the problem is he has in effect appointed himself special prosecutor and seized the powers that go with it. And I don't think anyone in his right mind thinks Schiff is even remotely qualified for the position he has claimed.
                              It's in Bill Taylor's written statement, dude.

                              Image 069.jpg
                              "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                A) "reportedly" - as in more leaked testimony?
                                2) when two persons contradict each other, the one who is most damaging to Trump is absolutely telling the truth
                                Taylor's written statement, as other recent witnesses, was released the day of his deposition.

                                When two people contradict each other, the one with extensive detail and documentation is probably telling the truth over the "I don't recall" guy who would otherwise be copping to a criminal conspiracy charge.

                                --Sam
                                "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                                Comment

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