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  • JimL
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    The biggest problem with their messaging is that they haven't given a good reason for anybody to actually vote for them. It's all been "Don't vote for Trump! Don't vote for Trump!" Okay, so who should we vote for?
    The biggest problem is Trump, and the need to get the lawless authoritarian out of the White house. But you musn't have watched the debates, impeaching Trump was rarely even mentioned. The Democrat candidates can walk and chew gum at the same time even if you can't keep up with them. It's the same with the House Impeachment investigation, even though that's all you hear about the House has passed much legislation on to the do nothing Senate.

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    The biggest problem with their messaging is that they haven't given a good reason for anybody to actually vote for them. It's all been "Don't vote for Trump! Don't vote for Trump!" Okay, so who should we vote for?
    I will admit that is a problem. But on that front, it's like a really deadly disease that has a cure. The medicine or procedure itself might make you really, really sick for a while, but as long as it is not as deadly as the disease you've got, and as long as if it works it gets rid of the terminal thing you've got, it's worth it.

    Jim

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  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    I gave him the link if he wants to rehash the inauguration crowd size debate, and if he bothers to post there, I'll take a look and see if it's anything worth responding to; otherwise, I said everything I cared to say three-years ago when the thread was active, and I'm content to let the matter rest. Jim's the one who doesn't seem to be able to let it go.


    Actually you are right in a sense.

    Your incapacity to reason logically about that issue does mean that I will not and should trust your capacity to reason logically about other matters. It shows - more than just a lack of technical understanding - a lack of capacity to recognize when you lack technical understanding and even more importantly an inability to learn or admit error when it would mean admitting Trump was wrong. And as a result, I would be a fool to 'let that go', i.e. to ignore the fact that is the mind I am interacting with. I say that not to disparage you MM, but that is simply the lesson of that thread until and unless something changes.

    Of course, I accept my responsibility to make my case against your reasoning on each issue. And I accept that sometimes you'll be right and I'll be wrong. That thread does not justify me dismissing any current argument you are making. The only reason it came up here is you mentioned the phrase 'trust me' in terms of accepting you've analyzed the data thoroughly. And - of course - that would be a fools errand for the reasons already cited.

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  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
    I've said it before and I'll say it again, the more the Democrats waste their time with this pursuit the less of a chance they'll have. There's just not much dirt there to be found. What they should focus on is their politics, their candidates, and figuring out what direction they should be heading. Right now they're stuck in a mindset of "Business as usual will win" and that won't work going forward. They'll have to figure themselves out at the moment.

    But that requires a lot more effort and work, than the temptation of a simple "We can win with a gotcha" approach.
    The biggest problem with their messaging is that they haven't given a good reason for anybody to actually vote for them. It's all been "Don't vote for Trump! Don't vote for Trump!" Okay, so who should we vote for?
    Last edited by Mountain Man; 10-30-2019, 05:36 PM.

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  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    MM is a big boy - you two can fight it out or hug it out.
    I gave him the link if he wants to rehash the inauguration crowd size debate, and if he bothers to post there, I'll take a look and see if it's anything worth responding to; otherwise, I said everything I cared to say three-years ago when the thread was active, and I'm content to let the matter rest. Jim's the one who doesn't seem to be able to let it go.

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Sayeth the person always screaming the sky is falling on all things Trump.
    That is your own particular madness pix. When I am addressing Trump, I am almost always addressing a specific action or event. Most of time when I talk about Trump in generalities, it is a response to someone like yourself launching themselves into orbit and making general accusations as to why I am bringing up a particular thing Trump is doing that is a problem. You see, what you can't see is that when I raise an issue about something Trump is doing, it is the thing he is doing and its consequences that is prompting me to say something - not the fact it is Trump doing it. Of course, the fact Trump is POTUS brings what he is doing into the public view far more often than someone else, and as POTUS he has the capacity to do things that affect far more people than most. But again, that is not because of Trump, but because he is POTUS. So what you need to wrap your head around Pix is that if the things he is doing were not bad, I would not be talking about Trump. And the simple fact is, if Donald Trump were to suddenly become a decent human being and start using the office of POTUS to doing truly good things and stop doing all the bad things, what you would hear out of me about him would also change.

    It is the 'something Trump is doing' that brings me into these discussions, not that it is 'Trump doing something'.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-30-2019, 05:25 PM.

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  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Jim,

    When someone says they're not interested in debate with you on a particular topic, you should not assume WHY they are not interested. That is mind-reading. I don't really care who is right or wrong on this topic, so projecting tacit approval of one side or the other here is, again, mind-reading.

    I will not be responding further, because I don't care and you appear to be determined to project the last word. Fine. It's all yours.
    I was, in fact, referring to those engaging with me in the debate at the time, or in conversations that have popped up here and there about it. I am not talking about people that have never involved themselves in that particular debate.

    Jim

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  • lilpixieofterror
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    And that line would be your current obsession pix.
    Sayeth the person always screaming the sky is falling on all things Trump. Just look at your obsession here with Trump on crowd sizes. Your obsession with finding evil in everything he says and does is as obvious as the nose on your face. You simply deny it because it makes you look crazy.
    Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-30-2019, 05:13 PM.

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  • One Bad Pig
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    I dont think you know what that means. And I was always taught silence in the face of something wrong is tacit approval.

    Again, I dont know of one person in the 'we are against the MSM camp' here at tweb that has spoken up and let it be known the crowd size nuttery from the Trump side is dead wrong. Even when the thread was active and we were all arguing the point.
    Jim,

    When someone says they're not interested in debate with you on a particular topic, you should not assume WHY they are not interested. That is mind-reading. I don't really care who is right or wrong on this topic, so projecting tacit approval of one side or the other here is, again, mind-reading.

    I will not be responding further, because I don't care and you appear to be determined to project the last word. Fine. It's all yours.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Makes sense CP. That would be a judgement call.
    Agreed. Sometimes, it's necessary to yell - like when somebody is backing their car into yours in the parking lot. That's NOT a time for quiet back channel diplomacy.

    Whatever has been done on that front, MM is still in a fantasyland regarding the issue, and he asked me to trust him that he has been keeping current with and understands the circumstances. Given he still maintains someone somehow altered the data that shows the gaps towards the monument, I have very good reason to doubt his capacity to reason logically on these matters.
    I honestly don't care (and no disrespect to you whatsoever - it's just a fact) because we all know Trump tends to exaggerate things bigly, and it really doesn't matter a hill of beans to me (or even one single bean) what the crowd size was.

    I just see no value whatsoever in prosecuting this particular war.

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    If I was to guess, itís because youíre incapable of having any sort of discussion, about Trump, without resorting to the idea that Trump is Satan himself. Itís pointless to even bother.
    And that line would be your current obsession pix.

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Sometimes silence gives you the opportunity to actually work the problem, instead of just loudly rail against it, Jim.

    I have done some "back door diplomacy" here with some posters where publicly blasting them on the board would not have allowed that.
    Makes sense CP. That would be a judgement call. Whatever has been done on that front, MM is still in a fantasyland regarding the issue, and he asked me to trust him that he has been keeping current with and understands the circumstances. Given he still maintains someone somehow altered the data that shows the gaps towards the monument, I have very good reason to doubt his capacity to reason logically on these matters.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-30-2019, 04:57 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Leonhard
    replied
    I've said it before and I'll say it again, the more the Democrats waste their time with this pursuit the less of a chance they'll have. There's just not much dirt there to be found. What they should focus on is their politics, their candidates, and figuring out what direction they should be heading. Right now they're stuck in a mindset of "Business as usual will win" and that won't work going forward. They'll have to figure themselves out at the moment.

    But that requires a lot more effort and work, than the temptation of a simple "We can win with a gotcha" approach.

    Leave a comment:


  • lilpixieofterror
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    I dont think you know what that means. And I was always taught silence in the face of something wrong is tacit approval.

    Again, I dont know of one person in the 'we are against the MSM camp' here at tweb that has spoken up and let it be known the crowd size nuttery from the Trump side is dead wrong. Even when the thread was active and we were all arguing the point.
    If I was to guess, itís because youíre incapable of having any sort of discussion, about Trump, without resorting to the idea that Trump is Satan himself. Itís pointless to even bother.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    I dont think you know what that means. And I was always taught silence in the face of something wrong is tacit approval.
    Sometimes silence gives you the opportunity to actually work the problem, instead of just loudly rail against it, Jim.

    I have done some "back door diplomacy" here with some posters where publicly blasting them on the board would not have allowed that.

    Leave a comment:

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