Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

The obvious has been officially confirmed ...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
    Trump is attempting to get Ukraine to take resposibility for the 2016 election interference so that he can, once again do Putins bidding...
    Right. You've got it all figure out.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      First, the White House has been trying to spin this as Trump trying to get Ukraine to combat general corruption. But mulvaneyscadmission shows there was a clear political motivation as well. To benefit his campaign efforts against the democrats.
      Mulvaney never said that the intent was to benefit campaign efforts against the Democrats. That's just your unfounded assumption.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Right. You've got it all figure out.
        Makes more sense than what you've posted so far. Just sayin'.

        This action by Trump has left valuable equipment in the hands of the Russians, could potentially expose sensitive information to them (see Jevenal's posts in the Kurds thread outlining some of the consequences of the unplanned withdrawal). It has the US abandoning an ally, which further erodes trust for our government which Trump has already eroded significantly. It has Given Russia status in the middle east, access in the middle east. This action has been in our worst interests, and in Russia's best interests.

        So any objective person not married to the idea of Trump as God's US Government Messiah want's to know why he is hurting us so much and helping Russia so much.


        Jim
        He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

        "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by JimL View Post
          No, her people hired a firm who then hired an ex British spy to do oposition research. Nothing illegal there.
          The lady of extra generous proportions has not yet harmonized her final number.
          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            Mulvaney never said that the intent was to benefit campaign efforts against the Democrats. That's just your unfounded assumption.
            Yes he did:

            Source: Mulvaney


            “Did he also mention to me in passing the corruption related to the D.N.C. server?” Mr. Mulvaney said, referring to Mr. Trump. “Absolutely. No question about that.” He added, “That’s why we held up the money.

            © Copyright Original Source



            The corruption related to the DNC server is the only possible 'that' in that phrase. So - they held up hte money because they wanted the DNC server conspiracy investigated. That is a political motivation if there ever was one. Basically, Ukraine helps Trumps US image by showing the Democrats were behind the election hacking, not the Russians, or They don't get money WE NEED THEM TO GET FOR NATIONAL SECURITY REASONS.

            So quid pro quo. You help me politically. I help you militarily. And this against what congress authorized (illegal) and against US National sercurity interests for personal gain (illegal)

            OF course, he's (mulveny) is denying it now. But hey, that is Trump. And why not. He has people like you to argue all day long Mulvaney never made the first statement.

            Jim
            He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

            "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              Yes he did:

              Source: Mulvaney


              “Did he also mention to me in passing the corruption related to the D.N.C. server?” Mr. Mulvaney said, referring to Mr. Trump. “Absolutely. No question about that.” He added, “That’s why we held up the money.

              © Copyright Original Source



              The corruption related to the DNC server is the only possible 'that' in that phrase. So - they held up hte money because they wanted the DNC server conspiracy investigated.
              Right, referring to something that happened during the 2016 election.

              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              That is a political motivation if there ever was one.
              And that's your unfounded assumption.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Right, referring to something that happened during the 2016 election.


                And that's your unfounded assumption.
                No - it's a fact.

                1) this 'conspiracy' has no basis in fact - it's just something Trump has glommed onto.

                2) The only reason to care is to put dirt on the Democrats and/or to release Putin from the sanctions imposed for their election interference in 2016


                Either way - it's a political and personal motivation.

                3) the primary focus of 'corruption' in the context of the July 25 call is Biden. Trumps Rival. Transitively, this is connected then to 1 and 2 above, but again, the primary motivation for that investigation is POLITICAL. He wants to get back and the Democrats, specifically Biden. Revenge maybe. Reducing Biden's chances of winning certainly. Doesn't matter though - again - because it's all political and personal, which means it's all abuse of the power of the office of president to support his personal interests in opposition to the National Security Interests of the US.


                Jim
                He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                  No - it's a fact.

                  1) this 'conspiracy' has no basis in fact - it's just something Trump has glommed onto.

                  2) The only reason to care is to put dirt on the Democrats and/or to release Putin from the sanctions imposed for their election interference in 2016


                  Either way - it's a political and personal motivation.

                  3) the primary focus of 'corruption' in the context of the July 25 call is Biden. Trumps Rival. Transitively, this is connected then to 1 and 2 above, but again, the primary motivation for that investigation is POLITICAL. He wants to get back and the Democrats, specifically Biden. Revenge maybe. Reducing Biden's chances of winning certainly. Doesn't matter though - again - because it's all political and personal, which means it's all abuse of the power of the office of president to support his personal interests in opposition to the National Security Interests of the US.


                  Jim

                  Regarding (2), it's also a way to discredit the Mueller investigation (which found extensive Russian interference in the 2016 elections) as a means to pardon Paul Manafort, who entered into a plea agreement apparently with the intention of being a double-agent for Trump as the investigation continued. Whether pardons for Manafort and others were floated by Trump of his lawyers has been a major question in the obstruction case against Trump.

                  --Sam
                  "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                    No - it's a fact.

                    1) this 'conspiracy' has no basis in fact - it's just something Trump has glommed onto.

                    2) The only reason to care is to put dirt on the Democrats and/or to release Putin from the sanctions imposed for their election interference in 2016


                    Either way - it's a political and personal motivation.

                    3) the primary focus of 'corruption' in the context of the July 25 call is Biden. Trumps Rival. Transitively, this is connected then to 1 and 2 above, but again, the primary motivation for that investigation is POLITICAL. He wants to get back and the Democrats, specifically Biden. Revenge maybe. Reducing Biden's chances of winning certainly. Doesn't matter though - again - because it's all political and personal, which means it's all abuse of the power of the office of president to support his personal interests in opposition to the National Security Interests of the US.


                    Jim
                    Pure spin.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      The obvious has been officially confirmed ...
                      Misleading title, unless you;re posting the official document stating why nice doctors in white coats are taking you away.
                      Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        Mulvaney never said that the intent was to benefit campaign efforts against the Democrats. That's just your unfounded assumption.
                        Intelligent people don't need it perfectly spelled out to them, MM. Besides that, Ukraine is at war with our common adversary and the Congress appropriated that aid for the defense of Ukraine, not to be withheld and used by the President to extort the Ukrainian government. Btw, there is also plenty of corroborating evidence as Trump was unable to intimidate or prevent patriotic witnesses from testifying as to exactly what he was up to.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                          Misleading title, unless you;re posting the official document stating why nice doctors in white coats are taking you away.
                          Hey Demi, help Trump out will ya. The election interference that helped put him in office, was it Russia or Ukraine?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
                            Intelligent people don't need it perfectly spelled out to them...
                            Who needs facts when you have truth, isn't that right?

                            Democrats are already pushing the narrative that the President doesn't actually need to have committed a crime to be impeached because they know they're serving up another nothing burger here.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              Who needs facts when you have truth, isn't that right?

                              Democrats are already pushing the narrative that the President doesn't actually need to have committed a crime to be impeached because they know they're serving up another nothing burger here.
                              That simply isn't true MM. however, one thing Trump has made clear is that there are many actions that can be taken that would have never been taken by predecessors that respected the constitution of the US and the rule of law. And as a result of the excesses seen in the Trump Presidency, it has become clear they need to be codified into law. Those sorts of things may well be impeachable, even if they are not technically against the law, simply because they are a clear violation of the Oath of Office.

                              Jim
                              He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                              "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                That simply isn't true MM. however, one thing Trump has made clear is that there are many actions that can be taken that would have never been taken by predecessors that respected the constitution of the US and the rule of law. And as a result of the excesses seen in the Trump Presidency, it has become clear they need to be codified into law. Those sorts of things may well be impeachable, even if they are not technically against the law, simply because they are a clear violation of the Oath of Office.

                                Jim
                                Translation: "If it's not against the law, then the law is wrong!"

                                This is exactly the sort of nuttery I'm talking about.
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by firstfloor, Today, 11:01 AM
                                10 responses
                                50 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post Starlight  
                                Started by Ronson, Today, 09:42 AM
                                11 responses
                                43 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post Ronson
                                by Ronson
                                 
                                Started by Esther, Yesterday, 12:09 PM
                                34 responses
                                224 views
                                2 likes
                                Last Post Electric Skeptic  
                                Started by Gondwanaland, 11-25-2020, 01:42 PM
                                50 responses
                                274 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Andius
                                by Andius
                                 
                                Started by Ronson, 11-25-2020, 11:16 AM
                                11 responses
                                93 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Working...
                                X