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The obvious has been officially confirmed ...

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  • demi-conservative
    replied
    The obvious has been officially confirmed ...
    Misleading title, unless you;re posting the official document stating why nice doctors in white coats are taking you away.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    No - it's a fact.

    1) this 'conspiracy' has no basis in fact - it's just something Trump has glommed onto.

    2) The only reason to care is to put dirt on the Democrats and/or to release Putin from the sanctions imposed for their election interference in 2016


    Either way - it's a political and personal motivation.

    3) the primary focus of 'corruption' in the context of the July 25 call is Biden. Trumps Rival. Transitively, this is connected then to 1 and 2 above, but again, the primary motivation for that investigation is POLITICAL. He wants to get back and the Democrats, specifically Biden. Revenge maybe. Reducing Biden's chances of winning certainly. Doesn't matter though - again - because it's all political and personal, which means it's all abuse of the power of the office of president to support his personal interests in opposition to the National Security Interests of the US.


    Jim
    Pure spin.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    No - it's a fact.

    1) this 'conspiracy' has no basis in fact - it's just something Trump has glommed onto.

    2) The only reason to care is to put dirt on the Democrats and/or to release Putin from the sanctions imposed for their election interference in 2016


    Either way - it's a political and personal motivation.

    3) the primary focus of 'corruption' in the context of the July 25 call is Biden. Trumps Rival. Transitively, this is connected then to 1 and 2 above, but again, the primary motivation for that investigation is POLITICAL. He wants to get back and the Democrats, specifically Biden. Revenge maybe. Reducing Biden's chances of winning certainly. Doesn't matter though - again - because it's all political and personal, which means it's all abuse of the power of the office of president to support his personal interests in opposition to the National Security Interests of the US.


    Jim

    Regarding (2), it's also a way to discredit the Mueller investigation (which found extensive Russian interference in the 2016 elections) as a means to pardon Paul Manafort, who entered into a plea agreement apparently with the intention of being a double-agent for Trump as the investigation continued. Whether pardons for Manafort and others were floated by Trump of his lawyers has been a major question in the obstruction case against Trump.

    --Sam

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Right, referring to something that happened during the 2016 election.


    And that's your unfounded assumption.
    No - it's a fact.

    1) this 'conspiracy' has no basis in fact - it's just something Trump has glommed onto.

    2) The only reason to care is to put dirt on the Democrats and/or to release Putin from the sanctions imposed for their election interference in 2016


    Either way - it's a political and personal motivation.

    3) the primary focus of 'corruption' in the context of the July 25 call is Biden. Trumps Rival. Transitively, this is connected then to 1 and 2 above, but again, the primary motivation for that investigation is POLITICAL. He wants to get back and the Democrats, specifically Biden. Revenge maybe. Reducing Biden's chances of winning certainly. Doesn't matter though - again - because it's all political and personal, which means it's all abuse of the power of the office of president to support his personal interests in opposition to the National Security Interests of the US.


    Jim

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Yes he did:

    Source: Mulvaney


    “Did he also mention to me in passing the corruption related to the D.N.C. server?” Mr. Mulvaney said, referring to Mr. Trump. “Absolutely. No question about that.” He added, “That’s why we held up the money.

    © Copyright Original Source



    The corruption related to the DNC server is the only possible 'that' in that phrase. So - they held up hte money because they wanted the DNC server conspiracy investigated.
    Right, referring to something that happened during the 2016 election.

    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    That is a political motivation if there ever was one.
    And that's your unfounded assumption.

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Mulvaney never said that the intent was to benefit campaign efforts against the Democrats. That's just your unfounded assumption.
    Yes he did:

    Source: Mulvaney


    “Did he also mention to me in passing the corruption related to the D.N.C. server?” Mr. Mulvaney said, referring to Mr. Trump. “Absolutely. No question about that.” He added, “That’s why we held up the money.

    © Copyright Original Source



    The corruption related to the DNC server is the only possible 'that' in that phrase. So - they held up hte money because they wanted the DNC server conspiracy investigated. That is a political motivation if there ever was one. Basically, Ukraine helps Trumps US image by showing the Democrats were behind the election hacking, not the Russians, or They don't get money WE NEED THEM TO GET FOR NATIONAL SECURITY REASONS.

    So quid pro quo. You help me politically. I help you militarily. And this against what congress authorized (illegal) and against US National sercurity interests for personal gain (illegal)

    OF course, he's (mulveny) is denying it now. But hey, that is Trump. And why not. He has people like you to argue all day long Mulvaney never made the first statement.

    Jim

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by JimL View Post
    No, her people hired a firm who then hired an ex British spy to do oposition research. Nothing illegal there.
    The lady of extra generous proportions has not yet harmonized her final number.

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Right. You've got it all figure out.
    Makes more sense than what you've posted so far. Just sayin'.

    This action by Trump has left valuable equipment in the hands of the Russians, could potentially expose sensitive information to them (see Jevenal's posts in the Kurds thread outlining some of the consequences of the unplanned withdrawal). It has the US abandoning an ally, which further erodes trust for our government which Trump has already eroded significantly. It has Given Russia status in the middle east, access in the middle east. This action has been in our worst interests, and in Russia's best interests.

    So any objective person not married to the idea of Trump as God's US Government Messiah want's to know why he is hurting us so much and helping Russia so much.


    Jim

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    First, the White House has been trying to spin this as Trump trying to get Ukraine to combat general corruption. But mulvaneyscadmission shows there was a clear political motivation as well. To benefit his campaign efforts against the democrats.
    Mulvaney never said that the intent was to benefit campaign efforts against the Democrats. That's just your unfounded assumption.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
    Trump is attempting to get Ukraine to take resposibility for the 2016 election interference so that he can, once again do Putins bidding...
    Right. You've got it all figure out.

    Leave a comment:


  • JimL
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    No, her people hired a firm who then hired an ex British spy to do oposition research. Nothing illegal there.

    Leave a comment:


  • JimL
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    But Hillary can't be impeached! She's not POTUS.
    Right, nor did she represent a government and through her power contact and extort a foreign government to investigate, to dig up, or to manurfacture dirt on a political opponent. But Trump did, and that's why he's being impeached.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Hillary? Why bring her into this?

    Jim
    I'm poking my friend JimL


    But, her people hired the British guy to come up with dirt on Trump.

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    But Hillary can't be impeached! She's not POTUS.
    Hillary? Why bring her into this?

    Jim

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by JimL View Post
    ...Simply asking a foreign government to simply investigate, to dig up, or to manufacture dirt on a political rival is impeachable...
    But Hillary can't be impeached! She's not POTUS.

    Leave a comment:

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