Originally posted by Cow Poke
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Civics 101 Guidelines
Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less
O’Rourke: Churches Should Lose Tax-exempt Status
Collapse
X
-
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
-
Originally posted by Teallaura View PostNo, but I was going to say 'get thee behind me, Satan' until I realized I'd have to first be tempted. Then I wondered if that was even possible - so far, no.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostWell you can look at it that way! I just say that God is supremely powerful...
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAnd the reason He cannot lie is because He's powerful enough to impose that limitation on Himself for our good.Last edited by Tassman; 11-07-2019, 11:46 PM.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostWell of course Tass, if a person believes there is a heaven to be won and a hell to be shunned that would be his dominate concern.
But of course this is the only life for the atheist so he would want to grab all he can in this life.
No Tass, there have not varied. Biblical morality is quote consistent between the Testaments.
But again, in your world there is no logical justification for any moral opinion
- you might as well argue that vanilla ice cream is superior to chocolate
BS - show me where the social mores of the day have changed my view of Scripture.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Tassman View PostIOW a “dominate concern” that takes priority over the health, prosperity, and safety of a person's community and loved ones.
Or, to put it in another way, giving priority to the health, prosperity, and safety of one’s community and loved ones as opposed to regarding them as secondary to eternal life with a fictional deity in an imaginary heaven.
Your so-called morally eternal, unchanging divine laws are NOT eternal and unchanging in practice. They have varied enormously over the course of Judeo/Christian history and invariably justified by an appeal to scripture.
Who says YOUR view of scripture is the correct one? ALL Christians have believed they’ve got it right but history demonstrates that they have got it wrong. Centuries of slave ownership spring to mind.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by Tassman View PostThat’s as ludicrous as a man pulling himself up by the straps of his own boots.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Tassman View PostOmnipotence means God is all-powerful. This means God has supreme power and has no limitations. But you have claimed that God is limited in that he cannot lie. Therefore he does NOT have supreme power.
Supreme:
highest in rank or authority; paramount; sovereign; chief.
of the highest quality, degree, character, importance, etc.:
greatest, utmost, or extreme:
last or final; ultimate.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostOf course He has supreme power, which does not mean that He can do anything:
God qualifies...
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostIt means that he can do anything that it is possible to do, and it is possible to lie. So, if, as you assert, he can not lie, then he not only isn't omnipotent., he is determined, no free will.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostHot fudge - thick and gooey hot fudge.
And"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostAgain Jim, I said God is supremely powerful. I do not use the term omnipotent.
Second, because He can not lie does not mean that He is determined in all areas.
You by nature can not flap your arms and fly, does not mean you are totally determined? Your argument is not logical.
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostYou mean takes priority over what you see as important.
Tell us Tass, how have you personally helped the poor and needy? I can't tell you how much my Church over the years have helped the poor with food and clothing.
Tass when my Church helps the needy we do not ask if they are Christian, it isn't even a consideration.
But if atheism is true, the poor, like the rest of us, are insignificant creatures on an insignificant plant in an ultimately doomed universe - with no more inherent worth than a housefly. You, what we do, all our works, are meaningless in the end, slated for dust.
Yes men can and do get things wrong, or misunderstand or use even the most sublime moral teachings for our own selfish ends - but in my world universal moral truths exist, in your world they don't. You could never formulate a logical argument for any moral evil being universally wrong. Everything is culturally relative.
Who says that slavery in wrong?
It certainly isn't in your world. So what are you talking about?“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostAgain Jim, I said God is supremely powerful. I do not use the term omnipotent.
Second, because He can not lie does not mean that He is determined in all areas.
You by nature can not flap your arms and fly, does not mean you are totally determined? Your argument is not logical.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostOkay, so now you've stripped god of his omnipotence.
And you know this, that god can't lie, how?
Apples and oranges, seer. We can't fly because we don't have the physical attributes to fly. God, or so you believe, has the attribute of communication. If it is impossible for him to use that attribute freely, to lie if he wanted to, then his truth telling would be determined. So, you would also argue that god can't do evil, that he can only do good, that he can only do what he ought to do, never what he ought not to do, and so the same would apply as with communication, god would basically be a determined entity, sort of like the universe. But the very idea of god doesn't make a whole lot of sense anyway. There is no evidence of such an entity, and even if there were, there's no evidence of his nature, or of the attributes you assign to him.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by Tassman View PostYes. I think the health, prosperity, and safety of my community and loved ones is more important than my own selfish, personal interests. OTOH you clearly prioritize your own escapist beliefs of eternal life.
If you lived in a more secular country, like those that top the Human Development and Happiness Indices, you wouldn’t require such comprehensive programs to help the poor and underprivileged. There wouldn’t be the need.
See above.
Untrue. The secular, more atheistic countries are measurably more equitable and less violent that the largely Christian USA.
Your so-called morally eternal, unchanging moral laws are nothing of the sort. They are demonstrably based upon the changing the social mores of the day and justified by an appeal to scripture. The one-time subordination of women, slave ownership and discrimination against LGBT people are examples of how social attitudes have changed. Even things like divorce and adultery are no longer considered eliminating factors for high office, as the Christian Right’s support for Donald Trump demonstrates.
Our current social mores condemn slave-ownership, just as they now condemn witch-killing and other practices once considered acceptable.
Nor was it in YOUR world for centuries because both “worlds” are grounded in the same social values. Morals are simply how humans behaved under certain circumstances at a certain time in history. Morals and ethics evolve and vary to a degree from culture to culture over time.
Tass here is the bottom line, if atheism is true none of this matters. We are insignificant creatures on an insignificant plant in an ultimately doomed universe - with no more inherent worth than a housefly. You, what we do, all our works, are ultimately meaningless - slated for dust. It makes no difference in the end if we are a Stalin or a Mother Teresa. Death is our lot. But feel free to keep spinning your wheels with your moral musings and studies remembering that they inconsequential because we are inconsequential.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
|
16 responses
132 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by One Bad Pig
Today, 11:55 AM
|
||
Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
|
53 responses
354 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Mountain Man
Today, 11:32 AM
|
||
Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
|
25 responses
112 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by rogue06
Today, 08:36 AM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
|
33 responses
197 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Roy
Today, 07:43 AM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
|
84 responses
361 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by JimL
Today, 11:08 AM
|
Comment