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O’Rourke: Churches Should Lose Tax-exempt Status

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  • #76
    Originally posted by JimL View Post
    That's exactly his point, neither can you
    I don't pretend to speak for all Catholics, Jim.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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    • #77
      Originally posted by JimL View Post
      The government doesn't play favorites, it isn't partisan, Tea. Whatever subsidies you are speaking of would apply to all candidates.
      Maybe, but they exist where you said otherwise.


      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

      My Personal Blog

      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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      • #78
        Originally posted by JimL View Post
        I don't think Tass is arguing that there is no wisdom to live by therein, Jim. I'm sure there is like wisdom in the Koran as well, but that doesn't make the reality of neither the one, nor the other story, historic in nature, or the revealed word of god.
        I was adressing the implication that the wisdom and meaning derived from the scripture is purely arbitrary, that it is 'whatever Christian's want it to be'. That just isnt an accurate conclusion to draw from the differences in understanding that exist regarding the specific argument he and CP were discussing.

        Jim
        He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

        "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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        • #79
          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
          I was adressing the implication that the wisdom and meaning derived from the scripture is purely arbitrary, that it is 'whatever Christian's want it to be'. That just isnt an accurate conclusion to draw from the differences in understanding that exist regarding the specific argument he and CP were discussing.

          Jim
          I'm beginning to think Tassman got left at the altar by a Southern Baptist or something.
          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            I was adressing the implication that the wisdom and meaning derived from the scripture is purely arbitrary, that it is 'whatever Christian's want it to be'. That just isnt an accurate conclusion to draw from the differences in understanding that exist regarding the specific argument he and CP were discussing.

            Jim
            I agree with this to some extent. I don't think the scripture is purely arbitrary or "whatever you want it to be". However for all practical matters I think Tassman is very close to the truth since Christianity is and has been used to justify all sorts of evil and inhuman actions and many good actions also. In my opionion that does not change what the message of the Bible is about but others wrongly claim that it supports of allows for all sorts of evil and they continue to use the Bible to justify their support of what is evil and inhumane. So the message IS not what you want it to be but some misuse it in order to support what they want it to support.

            So, in real life, the Bible is used for whatever some people (wrongly) prefer it to be about. I have heard it said that the current use of the Bible among Trump supporting white Evangelical has caused more harm on Scripture than any atheist could have ever done. I agree that is the case in practical terms. However, I believe their interpretation is wrong and so it does not really say much about what the Bible is really about.
            "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
              See Texas Monthly, Inc. v. Bullock for SCOTUS confirming that a religious tax exemption amounts to a subsidy that other tax-payers have to pay and striking down a Texas law giving tax exemptions to religious publications.
              This wasn't a tax exemption, at least as is how we are using it. The "exemption" to religious publications was on the part of the consumers--that is, the people subscribing to those magazines did not need to pay a sales tax (whereas anyone subscribing to a non-religious publication would have to pay a sales tax). It's sort of like how a lot of food products are sold without sales tax. That does not mean that the companies that make that food are in fact "tax exempt."

              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
              This argument sounds like it has plausible logic...

              ...right up until you actually start to look at the empirical evidence. The least religious countries in the world, who are majority atheist, tend to be the ones who are doing the best (in terms of almost any international comparison you care to pick - e.g. happiness, low murder rate, lack of corruption, life expectancy, general multi-variate comparisons etc.)

              A list of the top-10 least religious countries in the world, is pretty much a list of wonderful countries to live in (Australia, Sweden, Germany, Netherlands, New Zealand, Luxembourg, Denmark, Canada, France, Austria). That is certainly NOT a list of countries that are "going to hell in a hand-basket" or who are falling apart as a result of abandoning their Christian roots.

              A list of the top-10 most religious countries in the world is pretty much a list of atrociously awful countries to live in. (Algeria, Chad, Ghana, Mali, Qatar, Republic of the Congo, Rwanda, Zambia, Cambodia, Cameroon) With the possible exception of Qatar, religion doesn't seem to be making these countries great.
              This argument seems highly problematic to me. First, exactly where are these lists from? How did they quantify how religious or nonreligious they are? I have a hard time considering a list to be accurate if it puts Germany on a list of "least religious" countries but omits North Korea.

              Indeed, I notice a correlation in those lists: The countries in the first group (the "good" ones) are all countries where the majority of the population is white. The countries in the second group (the "bad" ones) are all countries where the majority of the population isn't white. It seems one can take the data you presented and, with just as much backing, assert it proves the superiority of the white race.

              I am, of course, not asserting that it is race that is the reason. Merely that one can draw that conclusion just as well as what you appear to be asserting.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Yes, I'm well aware of that, but your blanket statement "The government doesn't play favorites, it isn't partisan" is preposterous, Jim. Money is the mother's milk of politics, as they say.

                Both sides, when in power, will do nearly anything to keep themselves in power. Your blind trust in "the government" is, in my opinion, seriously misguided.
                The blanket statement was meant to cover the non partisan rules of government concerning political campaigns. You took the blanket statement out of context.

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                • #83
                  Has anybody else caught that even the Friendly Atheist blog (which isn't friendly at all) thinks Beto was wrong on this one? I can't link because of Hemant's language, but his point of focus is on the idea of legislating thought.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    I don't pretend to speak for all Catholics, Jim.
                    Or all christians, with respect to biblical interpretation, which I believe was his point.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      The blanket statement was meant to cover the non partisan rules of government concerning political campaigns. You took the blanket statement out of context.
                      Anybody who thinks our government is nonpartisan in this day and age must live in a cave, regardless of what "the rules" say.
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        Or all christians, with respect to biblical interpretation, which I believe was his point.
                        How bout you let him handle his point?
                        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                          I have a hard time considering a list to be accurate if it puts Germany on a list of "least religious" countries but omits North Korea.
                          .
                          You don't count Juche as a religion?
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            How bout you let him handle his point?
                            How bout you stop being a tweb "nanny."

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by JimL View Post
                              How bout you stop being a tweb "nanny."
                              Sure, Jimmy, whatever you say.
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                Anybody who thinks our government is nonpartisan in this day and age must live in a cave, regardless of what "the rules" say.
                                I hope you're keeping those tin foil hats handy there, CP. The rules concerning the subsidizing of political campaigns (whatever rules Tea is talking about) apply to all political parties and they are all aware of the rules.

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