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O’Rourke: Churches Should Lose Tax-exempt Status

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  • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
    They seem more concerned with personal salvation and eternal life than with the health, prosperity, and safety of their communities and loved ones.
    Well of course Tass, if a person believes there is a heaven to be won and a hell to be shunned that would be his dominate concern. But of course this is the only life for the atheist so he would want to grab all he can in this life.

    The problem with arguing morality with the likes of you, seer, is that your so-called morally eternal, unchanging divine laws are NOT eternal and unchanging. They have varied enormously over the course of Judeo/Christian history.
    No Tass, there have not varied. Biblical morality is quote consistent between the Testaments. I have actually listed these in the past specifically for you. And of course you just hand wave. But again, in your world there is no logical justification for any moral opinion - you might as well argue that vanilla ice cream is superior to chocolate

    Nor are there universal right or wrongs in your world, just subjective interpretations of the bible according to the social values of the day.
    BS - show me where the social mores of the day have changed my view of Scripture.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      If a deity is defined as omnipotent and omniscient but is limited in any area at all, such a the inability of choosing to lie, then that individual ceases to be an omnipotent and omniscient deity. Such an entity is reduced to being NEARLY an omniscient and omnipotent deity but not quite 'cutting the mustard'.
      That is why I don't use the term omnipotent, but how does the fact that God can't lie make Him not all knowing?
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • Originally posted by seer View Post
        That is why I don't use the term omnipotent, but how does the fact that God can't lie make Him not all knowing?
        And the reason He cannot lie is because He's powerful enough to impose that limitation on Himself for our good.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          And the reason He cannot lie is because He's powerful enough to impose that limitation on Himself for our good.
          Well you can look at it that way! I just say that God is supremely powerful...
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • Originally posted by seer View Post
            Well you can look at it that way! I just say that God is supremely powerful...
            Yeah, I just laugh at the "logic" concerning....

            It's like the old ditty about "Can God create a rock so big He can't pick it up?" If yes, then God is not all-powerful, cause He can't pick up the rock -- If no, then God is not all-powerful, cause He can't create a rock that big.

            It's just amusing to watch mere mortals trying to figure God.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by seer View Post
              Tea, do you believe God is unjust? He instituted the death penalty in the Old Testament, supported the concept in Romans 13. As far as getting back their life, they should repent are receive Christ, thereby entering eternal life.


              I Explicitly stated that the moral case against the death penalty CANNOT BE MADE.

              But it is also NOT POSSIBLE to make a case for unjust execution. Especially not from Scripture.


              Matthew 9:13


              Stop -
              Never mind - I'm not speaking to you until you apologize for REPEATING, via implication, Demi's unfounded accusation.
              Last edited by Teallaura; 11-07-2019, 06:39 PM.
              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

              My Personal Blog

              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

              Quill Sword

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              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                And the reason He cannot lie is because He's powerful enough to impose that limitation on Himself for our good.
                CP, think about what you're saying. If god were powerful enough to impose a limitation on his own abilities, then he is powerful enough to lift those limitations as well, which means, contrary to seer's assertion, he could lie all he wants.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Yeah, I just laugh at the "logic" concerning....

                  It's like the old ditty about "Can God create a rock so big He can't pick it up?" If yes, then God is not all-powerful, cause He can't pick up the rock -- If no, then God is not all-powerful, cause He can't create a rock that big.

                  It's just amusing to watch mere mortals trying to figure God.
                  Well then, tell seer to stop doing that!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    Well then, tell seer to stop doing that!
                    Why the games, Jim? Are you really incapable of keeping your word?
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      CP, think about what you're saying. If god were powerful enough to impose a limitation on his own abilities, then he is powerful enough to lift those limitations as well, which means, contrary to seer's assertion, he could lie all he wants.
                      Yeah, no.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        CP, think about what you're saying. If god were powerful enough to impose a limitation on his own abilities, then he is powerful enough to lift those limitations as well, which means, contrary to seer's assertion, he could lie all he wants.
                        The thing here is that can and will are almost synonyms when talking about God. I accept the view that there is no capability that God does not possess - so I have no issue with the first part of your assertion. In fact, I agree, God has the capability of telling a lie.

                        BUT it's akin to my ability to eat a live bug. I certainly have the capability but no will whatsoever to do so. You'd never convince me to do it - no matter the type of bug or the level of hunger. Not. Gonna. Happen.

                        Multiply by a bazllion when talking about God doing something contrary to His nature like lying. God simply doesn't violate His own nature - ever - and that is so strong that we can substitute 'cannot' for 'will not' with no functional difference in meaning.

                        God cannot lie because He will not lie. Yeah, it's a tautology but it's also true. I might waiver, being human, on eating a live lady bug, but God will not ever violate His nature. He is not human and not subject to our weakness.

                        And I'm NOT eating that bug!!!
                        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                        My Personal Blog

                        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                        Quill Sword

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                          The thing here is that can and will are almost synonyms when talking about God. I accept the view that there is no capability that God does not possess - so I have no issue with the first part of your assertion. In fact, I agree, God has the capability of telling a lie.

                          BUT it's akin to my ability to eat a live bug. I certainly have the capability but no will whatsoever to do so. You'd never convince me to do it - no matter the type of bug or the level of hunger. Not. Gonna. Happen.

                          Multiply by a bazllion when talking about God doing something contrary to His nature like lying. God simply doesn't violate His own nature - ever - and that is so strong that we can substitute 'cannot' for 'will not' with no functional difference in meaning.

                          God cannot lie because He will not lie. Yeah, it's a tautology but it's also true. I might waiver, being human, on eating a live lady bug, but God will not ever violate His nature. He is not human and not subject to our weakness.

                          And I'm NOT eating that bug!!!
                          Not even with sugar on top, whipped cream and a cherry?
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Why the games, Jim? Are you really incapable of keeping your word?
                            I don't think he's playing, CP. He and Seer are talking past each other (they seem to be training for an Olympic event in it... ).
                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                            My Personal Blog

                            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                            Quill Sword

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Not even with sugar on top, whipped cream and a cherry?


                              No. You're gonna have to do a lot better than that.
                              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                              My Personal Blog

                              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                              Quill Sword

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post


                                No. You're gonna have to do a lot better than that.
                                So it IS a possibility, and we're just negotiating!
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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