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O’Rourke: Churches Should Lose Tax-exempt Status

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  • Originally posted by Charles View Post
    The truth is you don't know.
    Let's make it really simple, Charles.

    Let's say I have 10 people in my Sunday School Class, and I ask the question about abortion, but we do it by secret ballot.
    3 of the 10 turn in ballots that say they are pro-abortion.

    Then I ask the question, "how many of you are Democrats", and 3 of the 10 claim to be Democrats.

    What are the odds that these 3 are NOT the same 3 who turned in the pro-abortion ballots?

    Try to be honest.


    THEN, for all the marbles, why does it matter?
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Using that survey, views about abortion among Southern Baptists show that...

      A) 30% of Southern Baptists believe abortion should be legal in all/most cases
      B) 32% of Southern Baptists are moderate or liberal
      C) 36% of Southern Baptists are Democrat or claim no leaning

      We are a diverse denomination - and, as stated, two of the most fundamental tenants of our denomination are "the priesthood of the believer" and "the autonomy of the local church".

      It should be no surprise to anybody that group A is probably the result of (or related to) being part of groups B and C.

      So, what's the significance of Charles' claim that "3 out of 10 Southern Baptists are pro choice"?

      As an aside, sadly, that survey also shows that "Frequency of participation in prayer, scripture study or religious education groups among members of the Southern Baptist Convention" is only at 44%. I'd love to see where that group stands abortion.
      It's one of the break-outs.

      I can't say what Charles is on about, but a couple things stand out for me. First, of course, is the partisanship. The numbers say the most relevant indicator is regular attendance ...

      2019-11-03_09-16-52.jpg

      ... where your focus is on Democrats.

      And the other is your oft-cited SB freedoms:
      We are a diverse denomination - and, as stated, two of the most fundamental tenants of our denomination are "the priesthood of the believer" and "the autonomy of the local church".

      You really shouldn't be giving me ideas.

      If'n you don't mind, though, I'm going to use my freedom to keep spelling it "tenets."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
        It's one of the break-outs.

        I can't say what Charles is on about,
        I keep asking.

        but a couple things stand out for me. First, of course, is the partisanship. The numbers say the most relevant indicator is regular attendance ...
        The biggest problem with that is WHY somebody regularly attends. I had two atheist men who were quite regular in attendance because they loved their wives, and their wives were believers. When Tom's wife died, he immediately stopped attending, though he remains a friend. Many people are "regular attenders" out of duty. Particularly men.

        In the Southern Baptist Church, one of the easiest ways to test this is by comparing the Wednesday night crowd to the Sunday morning crowd. The bigger the church, the greater that disparity.

        ... where your focus is on Democrats.
        Democrats don't appear to have the luxury of being pro-life, particularly when running for office.

        And the other is your oft-cited SB freedoms:
        We are a diverse denomination - and, as stated, two of the most fundamental tenants of our denomination are "the priesthood of the believer" and "the autonomy of the local church".

        You really shouldn't be giving me ideas.

        If'n you don't mind, though, I'm going to use my freedom to keep spelling it "tenets."
        Yeah, I slipped up. I'll own that.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Yeah, I slipped up. I'll own that.
          Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
          You really shouldn't be giving me ideas.
          Speaking of owning, I'm thinking of declaring my Everglades property a church, if'n I can find some denomination that'll give me local autonomy. I can pretty much guarantee 100 percent attendance, every night of the week, but we're likely to be a mixed bunch on these social issues.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
            Speaking of owning, I'm thinking of declaring my Everglades property a church, if'n I can find some denomination that'll give me local autonomy. I can pretty much guarantee 100 percent attendance, every night of the week, but we're likely to be a mixed bunch on these social issues.
            There is, of course, a framework of beliefs to which Southern Baptist Churches are expected to adhere, at least to some degree, in order to identify as Southern Baptists.

            But, yes, the cowboy church in town pretty much packs 'em in cause they have essentially the same music entertainment on Sunday morning that plays at the Hayseed Tavern on Saturday night, and the 'preaching' is pretty much "God loves ya, pilgrim".
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              There is, of course, a framework of beliefs to which Southern Baptist Churches are expected to adhere, at least to some degree, in order to identify as Southern Baptists.
              I'll check those out a bit more carefully just as soon as I can find the time. But you can't get much more Southern than the lower peninsula, and if 15 inches of rain over five hours coming at ya at 90 mph isn't getting Baptized, it should be! Not that we couldn't make allowances for fellow travelers.

              But, yes, the cowboy church in town pretty much packs 'em in cause they have essentially the same music entertainment on Sunday morning that plays at the Hayseed Tavern on Saturday night, and the 'preaching' is pretty much "God loves ya, pilgrim".
              May the gods keep ya, preacher, in the name of the bacon, and the lettuce, and the holy tomato.

              Yep, that's a winner.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                I'll check those out a bit more carefully just as soon as I can find the time. But you can't get much more Southern than the lower peninsula, and if 15 inches of rain over five hours coming at ya at 90 mph isn't getting Baptized, it should be! Not that we couldn't make allowances for fellow travelers.



                May the gods keep ya, preacher, in the name of the bacon, and the lettuce, and the holy tomato.

                Yep, that's a winner.
                I think O'Rourke just lost tax-exempt status ....

                https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/01/u...drops-out.html

                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                  Beto O’Rourke quits presidential race amid financial strains and lagging popularity
                  By Matt Viser and Jenna Johnson
                  November 1, 2019 at 6:25 p.m. EDT
                  Beto O’Rourke literally came bounding into the presidential race, jumping atop tables in jam-packed coffee shops, smiling like a Kennedy and waving his arms like a conductor.

                  He had been encouraged by President Obama, cheered on by Oprah Winfrey. Vanity Fair put him on its cover, a documentary about him premiered at the South by Southwest festival, and he began assembling some of the Democratic Party’s top political talent.

                  And then, 232 days after getting in, he would be gone.

                  In one of the most hyper-charged political rises and dramatic collapses in recent times, O’Rourke on Friday evening became the highest-profile candidate to drop out of the 2020 presidential campaign, amid financial strains and lagging popularity. His abrupt exit capped a week in which Sen. Kamala D. Harris (D-Calif.) significantly curbed her own ambitions, laying off most of her New Hampshire staff and reorienting her campaign toward Iowa. In the same week, a super PAC set up to benefit Joe Biden began operating, a reflection of his struggle to gain ground in Iowa even as he maintains a position at the top of what is now a 16-candidate field.
                  v.

                  Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                  I think O'Rourke just lost tax-exempt status ....

                  https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/01/u...drops-out.html

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                    I think O'Rourke just lost tax-exempt status ....
                    Biden is sinking, Harris was sunk, Sanders is weak, Warren has gone full socialist, irrelevant people have dropped out.

                    It's time, Hillary.
                    Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by seer View Post
                      There are clear cut cases Tea, like this one in my state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshi...vasion_murders

                      Of course you could just as well put an innocent person in prison for life.
                      There are 'clear cut cases' every year pulled off death row proven innocent. Man should never mistake himself for God.

                      The wrongfully imprisoned can be compensated, even if it seems inadequate. How do you give the wrongfully executed back their life?
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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                      • Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                        Meaning?
                        Full equality of the sexes was the norm at Creation, and is the norm to which the New Covenant points. Many find the various "clobber texts" to not be outmoded, but to be mistranslated, misinterpreted, and misapplied by patriarchalists.

                        More than this would be off-topic for this thread, IMO.
                        Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                        Beige Federalist.

                        Nationalist Christian.

                        "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                        Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                        Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                        Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                        Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                        Justice for Matthew Perna!

                        Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                          Full equality of the sexes was the norm at Creation, and is the norm to which the New Covenant points. Many find the various "clobber texts" to not be outmoded, but to be mistranslated, misinterpreted, and misapplied by patriarchalists.
                          Utter dung, invented to accommodate the 'wisdom' of this age.
                          Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                            There are 'clear cut cases' every year pulled off death row proven innocent. Man should never mistake himself for God.

                            The wrongfully imprisoned can be compensated, even if it seems inadequate. How do you give the wrongfully executed back their life?
                            Tea, do you believe God is unjust? He instituted the death penalty in the Old Testament, supported the concept in Romans 13. As far as getting back their life, they should repent are receive Christ, thereby entering eternal life.
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                              Full equality of the sexes was the norm at Creation, and is the norm to which the New Covenant points. Many find the various "clobber texts" to not be outmoded, but to be mistranslated, misinterpreted, and misapplied by patriarchalists.

                              More than this would be off-topic for this thread, IMO.
                              I believe that is the first time I have ever seen the word patriarchalists used in a discussion.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                                Not “ambiguous” texts. Texts have been used definitively according to the cultural mores of the day. E.g. Romans 13 was employed by anti-abolitionists to justify and legitimize the keeping of slaves. Similarly, the denial of female emancipation and homosexuality. And “adultery, fornication, homosexuality” may still be sinful in the eyes of many but, this was not sufficient to prevent the Religious Right from supporting an adulterous thrice-married womanizer as president…unthinkable a generation ago.
                                Tass you are not listening, even if Christians give in to cultural pressure it does make it right. Even if Christians don't rightly understand the law of God that in no way changes His law. If all Christians, tomorrow, decided that adultery was perfectly moral that doesn't magically make it moral or less sinful..



                                The death penalty might “prevent” further crimes from a particular perpetrator but “Scientists agree, by an overwhelming majority, that the death penalty has no deterrent effect. They felt the same way over ten years ago, and nothing has changed since then. States without the death penalty continue to have significantly lower murder rates than those that retain capital punishment". (Previously linked)
                                1. I don't care about deterring others, just preventing the murderer or rapist from hurting anyone, again.
                                2. What is the cause and effect concerning the states without the death penalty? Why does not having the death penalty lower murder rates? How?


                                This has not been true of the great powers in the past and its certainly not true of China which is overtaking the USA as the next great world power.
                                And China is gaining wealth and power because of capitalism. Point made.

                                Not so. The British Empire controlled a quarter of the world and lasted overall for c.400 years, the Mongol Empire existed during the 13th and 14th centuries and became the largest contiguous land empire ever. And the mighty Roman Empire ruled virtually the whole known world. The USA, incidentally, has been one of the shortest-lived world powers…less than a century.
                                No, technology (born through free markets) has given us a reach and power no country has had in history. And we are still the greatest power on earth, militarily China is not even close.


                                And yet the USA where, unlike secular Norway, the majority of people are religious ranks low on the ‘Happiness' and 'Human Development' Indices.
                                But again, the religious in Norway would be happier than the non-religious in Norway. And like I said the happiness index is bunk. Who cares, who says happiness is the goal?
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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