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O’Rourke: Churches Should Lose Tax-exempt Status

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  • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
    God is always right - but in this case you (general) can't read straight and you (personal) have been reading my posts for enough years to know A) I wouldn't make that implication and B) I NEVER use small case in reference to God. N-E-V-E-R.
    To be fair, I think that point would have been lost on Jim, who, as far as I can recall, never uses capital G for God, and very seldom (if ever) uses a capital A for America/American.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
      I don't think it's either/or. It's perfectly consistent to think that capital punishment served an important function in a collective society but isn't as good of an option in an individualistic society. What isn't an option for Christians (Teal didn't do this but I have seen some Christians do it) is to say that capital punishment is inherently immoral.
      I don't take the position that capital punishment is immoral - I don't see a rational case for that. I make the argument that within HUMAN limitations of jurisprudence, it's stupid, expensive, unreliable and, oh yes, STUPID.

      What God can govern justly modern man cannot.
      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

      My Personal Blog

      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

      Quill Sword

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        To be fair, I think that point would have been lost on Jim, who, as far as I can recall, never uses capital G for God, and very seldom (if ever) uses a capital A for America/American.
        Which is why I'm only annoyed with Jim - I'm mad at KG who knew better. Demi is a jerk and not worth the effort.
        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

        My Personal Blog

        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

        Quill Sword

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Let God be true, and every Tea a liar!!!!
          Romans 3:4



          And mildly amused with you...
          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

          Quill Sword

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post


            And mildly amused with you...
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
              Ah, back to being your old moron self, I see...
              Back to denial, eh?

              What about God asking the Israelites to oversee executions? What about Romans 13?
              Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Actually, we have a Judeo-Christian heritage from which came English Common Law.

                Our entire legal system evolved from that.
                That doesn't answer the question I posed to seer. The Judeo-Christian heritage doesn't prove gods existence or gods law, it only proves that you believe in gods existence and gods law. Human beings make the laws that govern themselves whether, as christians do, they choose to attribute them to a god.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  That doesn't answer the question I posed to seer. The Judeo-Christian heritage doesn't prove gods existence or gods law, it only proves that you believe in gods existence and gods law. Human beings make the laws that govern themselves whether, as christians do, they choose to attribute them to a god.
                  Actually, it proves that generations of people hundreds of years before me believed in it so much that they built their nation-state's laws on it.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                    God is always right -
                    Except for when he drown everyone in a flood and then repented for it saying "never again will I do that."

                    but in this case you (general) can't read straight and you (personal) have been reading my posts for enough years to know A) I wouldn't make that implication and B) I NEVER use small case in reference to God. N-E-V-E-R.
                    I don't believe I mentioned anything about that. I just responded to your assertion that killing people to solve a problem is always stupid. Apparently yahwah disagreed with you.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Actually, it proves that generations of people hundreds of years before me believed in it so much that they built their nation-state's laws on it.
                      So what. You do realize that the use of the idea of god is what gives the laws more force, right. I hear that from christians all the time, that if it weren't for their belief in a god watching over them they'd be immoral lawbreakers. The concept of god is the only thing that keeps them in line. Is it any wonder that the concept of god has been impressed upon people for hundreds of years before you.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        So what. You do realize that the use of the idea of god is what gives the laws more force, right. I hear that from christians all the time, that if it weren't for their belief in a god watching over them they'd be immoral lawbreakers. The concept of god is the only thing that keeps them in line. Is it any wonder that the concept of god has been impressed upon people for hundreds of years before you.
                        Have a great evening.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                          No, he does not. I NEVER, EVER USE THE SMALL CASE WHEN REFERRING TO GOD and you (personal) darn well know it!

                          'You', in the quote, is in the general referring to both death penalty and abortion proponents. Only a moron would have trouble figuring that out.
                          I'm confused. I wasn't referring at all to anything to do with capitalization. Jim does it so often I ignore it. I was referring to calling capital punishment stupid.
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seer View Post
                            What is your point Tass, in your world no set of social norms is superior to another set of norms. And Peter is not condoning or condemning slavery, he is just dealing with the fact of slavery and how Christians should relate to those who have authority over us.
                            The point about 1 Peter in this context is that Christians who wanted to retain slave-ownership used this passage and others such as Ephesians 6:5 to justify it. There’s a passage for everything in the bible.

                            And why are they right?
                            The death penalty is considered morally reprehensible by virtually all Western nations. More to the point, there is no credible evidence that the death penalty deters crime in society at large and there are many studies that confirm this fact.

                            That is just silly. Every dollar you take out of ones pocket for your social programs is that much less freedom for the individual. In other words you reduce his buying power and liberty, giving more power to the state for control.
                            There’s not much “freedom” for those reduced to poverty by the social system and the resultant inability to buy food and pay bills and obtain proper health care. And what the 'state is controlling' in the USA is generous tax-cuts for the very rich and the systematic removal of benefits to the very poor.

                            And who said that happiness is the goal?
                            I would prefer to be happy wouldn’t you, or do you want to stay miserable?

                            Nonsense it is not unfettered, and yes freedom produces inequity. Perhaps you prefer Communism, then we could all be equally poor.
                            What I “prefer” is what most of the Western world (except the US) already has, namely an extensive welfare system and comprehensive safety net. The nations that have these things top the Happiness Index and Human Development Index.

                            The fact is there is no justification for homosexual behavior in Scripture, it clearly condemns it.
                            So, you like to think. Biblical interpretation has a history of meaning whatever its adherents want it to mean, whether regarding homosexuality, denying female emancipation or retaining slave-ownership etc. etc. etc.

                            Another falsehood, slavery was a fact long before we had it in the US,
                            Yes. Social customs, such as slavery, are determined by the social values of the day and justified by selected biblical passages. In the 18th and 19th century debates re slavery passages in the Bible were used by both pro-slavery advocates and abolitionists to support their respective views.

                            So no abortions after 24 weeks?
                            This is the position which I support, except in the most exceptional circumstances, and this is the position promulgated by Roe v Wade and supported by over 70% of the US population
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                              The point about 1 Peter in this context is that Christians who wanted to retain slave-ownership used this passage and others such as Ephesians 6:5 to justify it. There’s a passage for everything in the bible.
                              Tass, you do know that slavery in the US was based on kidnapping and that kidnapping is a sin in Scripture - correct?



                              The death penalty is considered morally reprehensible by virtually all Western nations. More to the point, there is no credible evidence that the death penalty deters crime in society at large and there are many studies that confirm this fact.
                              Again why are they right? Why is it morally reprehensible? If I steal kill and eat a man's sheep, it would be perfectly just to be required to give him one of my sheep. If I, with malice, take another man's life it would be perfectly just to forfeit my life. And again you are just not listening. If you put the murderer to death he can never kill or harm anyone else - that is clear deterrent - for that individual.


                              There’s not much “freedom” for those reduced to poverty by the social system and the resultant inability to buy food and pay bills and obtain proper health care. And what the 'state is controlling' in the USA is generous tax-cuts for the very rich and the systematic removal of benefits to the very poor.
                              Do you think I'm rich? I'm 66, and still struggle to make ends meet. And I sill prefer freedom to Government control and handout. Though I do not have a problem with a social safety net for those who are truly in need.



                              I would prefer to be happy wouldn’t you, or do you want to stay miserable?
                              Tass, I linked a number of studies in the past showing that religious people are happier and more content than the non-religious. That has as much relevance to you as your studies do for me. And yes there are more important things - like living a moral and religious life even if, at times, it does make you miserable. Denying ones self for a greater purpose does not always make one happy.



                              What I “prefer” is what most of the Western world (except the US) already has, namely an extensive welfare system and comprehensive safety net. The nations that have these things top the Happiness Index and Human Development Index.
                              Why not go all the way with Communism is you really want equity?


                              So, you like to think. Biblical interpretation has a history of meaning whatever its adherents want it to mean, whether regarding homosexuality, denying female emancipation or retaining slave-ownership etc. etc. etc.
                              Again, that is an outright falsehood Tass, the Biblical texts against homosexual behavior are clear - no interpretation necessary.


                              Yes. Social customs, such as slavery, are determined by the social values of the day and justified by selected biblical passages. In the 18th and 19th century debates re slavery passages in the Bible were used by both pro-slavery advocates and abolitionists to support their respective views.
                              So what? You don't need Scripture to justify slavery? In your relative world you can just deem it a moral good and it is a moral good


                              This is the position which I support, except in the most exceptional circumstances, and this is the position promulgated by Roe v Wade and supported by over 70% of the US population
                              What are the exceptional circumstances? And if 70% of the population supported slavery would that make in acceptable?
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                                Tass, you do know that slavery in the US was based on kidnapping and that kidnapping is a sin in Scripture - correct?
                                And yet Christians managed to justify slavery with scriptural texts for centuries. Scripture can be made to say whatever the moral culture of the day wants it to say.

                                Again why are they right? Why is it morally reprehensible? If I steal kill and eat a man's sheep, it would be perfectly just to be required to give him one of my sheep. If I, with malice, take another man's life it would be perfectly just to forfeit my life. And again you are just not listening. If you put the murderer to death he can never kill or harm anyone else - that is clear deterrent - for that individual.
                                We have moved beyond the primitive “eye for and eye” morality of the OT…well most of us have.

                                Do you think I'm rich? I'm 66, and still struggle to make ends meet. And I sill prefer freedom to Government control and handout. Though I do not have a problem with a social safety net for those who are truly in need.
                                Compared to many other Western nations the social safety net in the US is woefully inadequate.

                                Tass, I linked a number of studies in the past showing that religious people are happier and more content than the non-religious.
                                Delusional people are often happier than reality-based individuals. But the stats show that the 'Happiness' and 'Human Development' Indices are highest in the more secular countries.

                                That has as much relevance to you as your studies do for me. And yes there are more important things - like living a moral and religious life even if, at times, it does make you miserable. Denying ones self for a greater purpose does not always make one happy.
                                Moral according to whom. You?

                                Again, that is an outright falsehood Tass, the Biblical texts against homosexual behavior are clear - no interpretation necessary.
                                Other Christians disagree. Just as they disagreed about the biblical texts that justified slavery and the oppression of women. Scripture can be made to support and justify whatever personal bias or bigotry you want. It’s terribly useful in this regard.

                                What are the exceptional circumstances?
                                When it is necessary, according to appropriate medical judgement, to preserve the life or health of the woman.
                                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                                Comment

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