Originally posted by JimL
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Take This Impeachment And Shove It...
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostI'd also say that obstructing impeachment investigations using executive privilege is also a significant abuse of power. Executive privilege is to protect confidential communication deemed vital for national security reasons not to prevent investigations into personal misconduct. Even then, impeachment should be the one process that it can't be hidden from. US v Nixon held that executive privilege can't be absolute as it would restrict the proper exercise of judicial power to gather information. Its the same reasoning used to conclude that impeachment power becomes impotent if executive privilege is allowed to prevent access to information.
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostAbuse of power should be considered in the same context as crime in that if a violation of law can be considered a crime; a violation of authority can be considered an abuse of power. Just like crime, abuse of power covers a broad range of actions that can be considered trivial to severe. Someone using the authority of their position to get out of a parking ticket is an abuse of power as is conditioning the direction of public policy on a personal benefit.
The question is how severe would a presidents abuse of power have to be before it will be impeachable?Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostI'd also say that obstructing impeachment investigations using executive privilege is also a significant abuse of power. Executive privilege is to protect confidential communication deemed vital for national security reasons not to prevent investigations into personal misconduct. Even then, impeachment should be the one process that it can't be hidden from. US v Nixon held that executive privilege can't be absolute as it would restrict the proper exercise of judicial power to gather information. Its the same reasoning used to conclude that impeachment power becomes impotent if executive privilege is allowed to prevent access to information.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostIf we're going by the Constitution, impeachment is exclusively reserved for actual crimes. Per your examples, the problem is not "abuse of power" in and of itself but the fact that the person in question is using his position of authority to get away with breaking the law. When it comes to Trump, he broke no laws, so there's nothing to hang an "abuse of power" accusation on.
If a president was to fire every executive official and replace them with pornstars would that be impeachable?
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Trump’s ship of fools:
Trump has found the one constitutional “expert” who will take such a position, however: Harvard professor emeritus and frequent Fox News guest Alan Dershowitz, whom Trump added to his defense team last week. “Criminal-like conduct is required” in order for a president to be impeached, Dershowitz now claims, to the puzzlement of pretty much everyone who knows anything about this topic.
Since hypocrisy is something of a job requirement for working for Trump, Dershowitz is naturally on video making exactly the opposite argument in 1998. “It certainly doesn’t have to be a crime if you have somebody who completely corrupts the office of president and who abuses trust and who poses great danger to our liberty,” he said at the time.
“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostI understand that’s what you believe, but it seems the vast majority of the legal community, including Alan Dershowitz, would disagree.
If a president was to fire every executive official and replace them with pornstars would that be impeachable?Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by JimLamebrain View PostAndrew Johnson wasn't impeached for violating criminal law, he was impeached, by a vote of 35 -19, for "abuse of power."
The argument for “abuse of power” is flimsy and draws on the worst possible precedent. Left-wing legal scholar Cass Sunstein, a former Obama administration official, actually argued in his 2017 book Impeachment: A Citizen’s Guide that “abuse of power” is an impossibly broad standard: “Almost every American president has, on more than one occasion, passed the bounds of his power, in the sense that his administration has done something that it is not lawfully entitled to do.” The House Judiciary Committee staff, prepared entirely by Democrats, cites Sunstein’s book but ignores that passage. Similarly, the staff report ignored liberal legal scholar Jonathan Turley, who testified before the committee last week that its “abuse of power” standard would apply to every president.
Worse, Democrats on the Judiciary Committee actually cite the impeachment of Andrew Johnson — which is widely regarded as a mistake — in arguing that Congress ought to impeach presidents on the basis of “illegitimate motives,” even if their actions are legally permissible.
...
Johnson was impeached by the House by a runaway Republican majority and acquitted in the Senate by one vote.
The Johnson precedent has been a cautionary tale for over 150 years, a prime example of what Congress ought not to do. Yet Democrats, with their forthcoming article of impeachment on “abuse of power,” are invoking the Johnson precedent as a positive inspiration.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...n-impeachment/Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostIs it a crime to appoint porn stars to official positions?
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/20/p...uct/index.html
Trump certainly is somebody who completely corrupts the office of president and who abuses trust and who poses great danger to US liberty. Among other things by extorting a foreign leader to interfere in the US elections.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post...extorting a foreign leader to interfere in the US elections.
As for Dershorwitz, his position hasn't changed. From the CNN link, but buried at the very bottom of the article where you obviously didn't notice: "You need criminal-type behavior akin to treason and bribery. It doesn't have to be a technical crime because at the time that the framers wrote the constitution there was no criminal code."Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThat never happened.
As for Dershorwitz, his position hasn't changed. From the CNN link, but buried at the very bottom of the article where you obviously didn't notice: "You need criminal-type behavior akin to treason and bribery. It doesn't have to be a technical crime because at the time that the framers wrote the constitution there was no criminal code."
More importantly, you focus on the idea that if the framers didn't mention a specific lawless act, or the criminal code does not detail a specific act as a crime, it can't be impeachable. But at the heart of every element mentioned in the constitution is a lawless leader that abuses his power as president. It is impossible to mention in a document every possible abuse of power that would be impeachable, but we are given examples of the same. And one of those examples is bribery. Blackmail is not mentioned, but blackmail is an especially heinous form of bribery, and it is basically what the president has done to Ukraine. He has said to them - you announce an investigation on Biden, or I will refuse to allow this country to help you fight off the Russian invasion. That investigation on Biden serves no purpose but to benefit the president in the upcoming election and has serious negative national security implications. The President has put his own personal gain over the best interests of the nation.
There is no more serious abuse of power than that, no more abusive form of bribery than that. You are playing a legalistic game in an attempt to excuse extreme excess at the peril of the nation.
How can you in good conscience ally yourself in this way MM?Last edited by oxmixmudd; 01-21-2020, 07:36 AM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostActually - it did. And it is as obvious as the sun in the desert except to those as who choose not to see it.
More importantly, you focus on the idea that if the framers didn't mention a specific lawless act, or the criminal code does not detail a specific act as a crime, it can't be impeachable. But at the heart of every element mentioned in the constitution is a lawless leader that abuses his power as president. It is impossible to mention in a document every possible abuse of power that would be impeachable, but we are given examples of the same. And one of those examples is bribery. Blackmail is not mentioned, but blackmail is an especially heinous form of bribery, and it is basically what the president has done to Ukraine. He has said to them - you announce an investigation on Biden, or I will refuse to allow this country to help you fight off the Russian invasion. That investigation on Biden serves no purpose but to benefit the president in the upcoming election and has serious negative national security implications. The President has put his own personal gain over the best interests of the nation.
There is no more serious abuse of power than that, no more abusive form of bribery than that. You are playing a legalistic game in an attempt to excuse extreme excess at the peril of the nation.
How can you in good conscience ally yourself in this way MM?Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostDoes one want a president who appoints porn stars to official positions, ...Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.
Beige Federalist.
Nationalist Christian.
"Everybody is somebody's heretic."
Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.
Proud member of the this space left blank community.
Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.
Justice for Ashli Babbitt!
Justice for Matthew Perna!
Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!
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