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Take This Impeachment And Shove It...

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  • All about the awful Mike Davis:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/10/p...kavanaugh.html
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
    “not all there” - you know who you are

    Comment


    • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
      The excuses you come up with to excuse away anything Hillary does is truly breathtaking. You’re a full blown, Hillary apologist.
      My position on Clinton's server practices are that they were unwise and not excused by previous administrations' similar lax standards, that her carelessness should have been give more attention than her predecessors so that the standard for government employees, especially senior staff, should be tightened.

      I maintain that she did nothing that her predecessors didn't do, however, so the personal excoriation she received was overblown as a campaign matter and cynically tied into an electoral attack by her opponent and a foreign government that had nothing to do with her email use.

      I maintain, in accordance with the DOJ decision, that it would have been very difficult to prosecute Clinton, not least because of the behavior of her predecessors that went nearly unremarked even after it was widely known.

      There are hacks all around this issue, sure, but I ain't the one you want to point that finger at.

      --Sam
      "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
        Translation: Clinton destroyed evidence in deliberate defiance of a lawful subpoena.

        Yep, I agree.
        No, she did no such thing and a person of integrity wouldn't make that false allegation at this point, knowing what we know.

        --Sam
        "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

        Comment


        • Good question.

          Do Americans still have a government? I do not know. What I do know is that President Trump and the upper echelons of the executive branch are at war with the legislative branch, the rule of law, the constitution, federal civil servants and the American people. It’s a conflict that pulls in many directions, and if the president threatened civil war the other day as something that could happen if he doesn’t get his way, we can regard the ordinary state of things as a low-intensity civil war or a slo-mo coup that’s been going on from the beginning. Tuesday’s White House refusal to cooperate with the impeachment inquiry only escalates their defiance and their chaos.
          /https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/09/trump-government-executive-branch-rebecca-solnit
          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
          “not all there” - you know who you are

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sam View Post
            No, she did no such thing and a person of integrity wouldn't make that false allegation at this point, knowing what we know.

            --Sam
            So you don't consider yourself a person of integrity? Cold, man!

            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

            My Personal Blog

            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sam View Post
              But that's not what Bleachbit is, nor what it really does. It's commercial-grade free software that does a one-pass wipe.
              Beyond simply deleting files, BleachBit includes advanced features such as shredding files to prevent recovery, wiping free disk space to hide traces of files deleted by other applications

              https://www.bleachbit.org/
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Beyond simply deleting files, BleachBit includes advanced features such as shredding files to prevent recovery, wiping free disk space to hide traces of files deleted by other applications

                https://www.bleachbit.org/
                To truly delete data from a hard drive, especially an ssd (and depending on its configuration) requires tools more sophisticated than that.

                Jim
                He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  Beyond simply deleting files, BleachBit includes advanced features such as shredding files to prevent recovery, wiping free disk space to hide traces of files deleted by other applications

                  https://www.bleachbit.org/

                  Yes, it's a simple data wiping program, like those found in CCleaner and AVG. The allegation was that Clinton used a wiping technique so sophisticated that even forensic tools couldn't recover the data. That misrepresents at least three things:

                  1) The allegation involves an incident where a Platte River Network, the host of Clinton's servers, employee erased a PST backup file of Clinton's emails in March 2015, after realizing that he didn't do so in 2014, before Clinton's emails were subpoenaed. The matter was investigated and the employee told the FBI that he did so because he saw a news report on the matter and remembered that he had not deleted the file. Because the employee was offered immunity for his testimony, he faced no charges. No evidence was found to suggest that Clinton or anyone associated with her directed the illegal destruction of evidence or that they were even aware of this leftover backup file.

                  2) Shredding applications like Bleachbit are common and all advertise that they can "prevent recovery". Recovery, however, depends on a wide number of variables so anything from zeroing out sectors to overwriting with "junk" data can succeed or fail to prevent recovery based on factors outside the application's control.

                  3) Forensic recovery isn't some sort of magic. If a file reference is deleted and the file split over a hundred different sectors, forensic tools might not be able to recover it even without any specialized applications. Recovery becomes much harder when files are overwritten by applications like CCleaner, AVG, or Bleachbit but there is not, in practice, much difference between a one-pass overwrite like Bleachbit and a seven-pass DoD-compliant overwrite.


                  I don't expect this to dissuade y'all who have had years to understand the basic facts about this allegation from bearing false witness but there it is for others, at least.

                  --Sam
                  "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                    To truly delete data from a hard drive, especially an ssd (and depending on its configuration) requires tools more sophisticated than that.

                    Jim

                    SSDs get the hammer. It's the only way.

                    pr80016.jpg
                    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      To truly delete data from a hard drive, especially an ssd (and depending on its configuration) requires tools more sophisticated than that.

                      Jim
                      Not really. Read what Bleachbit's creator has to say. His software is specifically designed to render data unrecoverable.

                      https://docs.bleachbit.org/doc/shred...ipe-disks.html

                      And this from Wikipedia:

                      Daniel Feenberg, an economist at the private National Bureau of Economic Research, claims that the chances of overwritten data being recovered from a modern hard drive amount to "urban legend". He also points to the "​18 1⁄2-minute gap" Rose Mary Woods created on a tape of Richard Nixon discussing the Watergate break-in. Erased information in the gap has not been recovered, and Feenberg claims doing so would be an easy task compared to recovery of a modern high density digital signal.

                      [...]

                      ...according to the 2014 NIST Special Publication 800-88 Rev. 1 (p. 7): "For storage devices containing magnetic media, a single overwrite pass with a fixed pattern such as binary zeros typically hinders recovery of data even if state of the art laboratory techniques are applied to attempt to retrieve the data." An analysis by Wright et al. of recovery techniques, including magnetic force microscopy, also concludes that a single wipe is all that is required for modern drives.

                      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data...erwritten_data

                      Bottom line: anybody using Bleachbit wants to render their data literally unrecoverable.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                        Yes, it's a simple data wiping program, like those found in CCleaner and AVG. The allegation was that Clinton used a wiping technique so sophisticated that even forensic tools couldn't recover the data. That misrepresents at least three things:

                        1) The allegation involves an incident where a Platte River Network, the host of Clinton's servers, employee erased a PST backup file of Clinton's emails in March 2015, after realizing that he didn't do so in 2014, before Clinton's emails were subpoenaed. The matter was investigated and the employee told the FBI that he did so because he saw a news report on the matter and remembered that he had not deleted the file. Because the employee was offered immunity for his testimony, he faced no charges. No evidence was found to suggest that Clinton or anyone associated with her directed the illegal destruction of evidence or that they were even aware of this leftover backup file.

                        2) Shredding applications like Bleachbit are common and all advertise that they can "prevent recovery". Recovery, however, depends on a wide number of variables so anything from zeroing out sectors to overwriting with "junk" data can succeed or fail to prevent recovery based on factors outside the application's control.

                        3) Forensic recovery isn't some sort of magic. If a file reference is deleted and the file split over a hundred different sectors, forensic tools might not be able to recover it even without any specialized applications. Recovery becomes much harder when files are overwritten by applications like CCleaner, AVG, or Bleachbit but there is not, in practice, much difference between a one-pass overwrite like Bleachbit and a seven-pass DoD-compliant overwrite.


                        I don't expect this to dissuade y'all who have had years to understand the basic facts about this allegation from bearing false witness but there it is for others, at least.

                        --Sam
                        So you’re saying that Clinton couldn’t of accidentally made a hard drive unable to be analyzed and had to deliberately do it. Thank you.
                        Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-10-2019, 07:30 PM.
                        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                        Comment


                        • Usually people don't shoot their own argument in the head with their own links but usually people have given their own argument a modicum of thought which hasn't been a strong suit of y'all arguing this point.

                          So I suppose that's why you're citing someone who says just zeroing out the sectors that a file is stored on -- something any basic deletion software can do and common practice in any IT department -- often renders the file unrecoverable to even advanced forensic techniques.

                          --Sam

                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          Not really. Read what Bleachbit's creator has to say. His software is specifically designed to render data unrecoverable.

                          https://docs.bleachbit.org/doc/shred...ipe-disks.html

                          And this from Wikipedia:

                          Daniel Feenberg, an economist at the private National Bureau of Economic Research, claims that the chances of overwritten data being recovered from a modern hard drive amount to "urban legend". He also points to the "​18 1⁄2-minute gap" Rose Mary Woods created on a tape of Richard Nixon discussing the Watergate break-in. Erased information in the gap has not been recovered, and Feenberg claims doing so would be an easy task compared to recovery of a modern high density digital signal.

                          [...]

                          ...according to the 2014 NIST Special Publication 800-88 Rev. 1 (p. 7): "For storage devices containing magnetic media, a single overwrite pass with a fixed pattern such as binary zeros typically hinders recovery of data even if state of the art laboratory techniques are applied to attempt to retrieve the data." An analysis by Wright et al. of recovery techniques, including magnetic force microscopy, also concludes that a single wipe is all that is required for modern drives.

                          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data...erwritten_data

                          Bottom line: anybody using Bleachbit wants to render their data literally unrecoverable.
                          "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                            Usually people don't shoot their own argument in the head with their own links but usually people have given their own argument a modicum of thought which hasn't been a strong suit of y'all arguing this point.

                            So I suppose that's why you're citing someone who says just zeroing out the sectors that a file is stored on -- something any basic deletion software can do and common practice in any IT department -- often renders the file unrecoverable to even advanced forensic techniques.

                            --Sam
                            What’s the name of the forest, you’re in?
                            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                              Usually people don't shoot their own argument in the head with their own links but usually people have given their own argument a modicum of thought which hasn't been a strong suit of y'all arguing this point.

                              So I suppose that's why you're citing someone who says just zeroing out the sectors that a file is stored on -- something any basic deletion software can do and common practice in any IT department -- often renders the file unrecoverable to even advanced forensic techniques.

                              --Sam
                              You're missing the point. Someone using purpose built "file shredding" software that is explicitly designed to render data unrecoverable is deliberately going out of their way to make sure nothing on the hard drive can be recovered. In the case of Hillary and her gang using Bleachbit to wipe her server ("You mean like with a cloth?"), it was done willfully and with intent to prevent the subpoenaed data from being used as evidence against them.

                              Although I think you're smart enough to understand all of this and are playing "devil's advocate" just to keep the debate going.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • It's easy to understand why y'all never detail the allegations you're making here. The accusation is that Clinton, with her email data under subpoena, ordered the secure deletion of relevant hardware. But there's nothing to suggest that happened. What the accusation refers back to is the deletion of a PST file by a PRN employee in March 2015. The employee deleted the file in response to a news report about the subpoena but there is no evidence that Clinton directed him to do so or that the use of Bleachbit was itself evidence of intent to suppress evidence. Such software use would be mandatory at almost any server hosting hosting company when it comes to client data. And folks who don't understand the first thing about this stuff really shouldn't be telling those of us who do what normal IT security practices are.

                                But if you talk about what really happened instead of repeating the accusation over and over then you lose the argument on the merits and it's far too precious for that to happen.

                                --Sam

                                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                You're missing the point. Someone using purpose built "file shredding" software is deliberately going out of their way to make sure nothing on the hard drive can be recovered. In the case of Hillary and her gang using Bleachbit to wipe her server ("You mean like with a cloth?"), it was done willfully and with intent to prevent the subpoenaed data from being used as evidence against them.

                                Although I think you're smart enough to understand all of this and are playing "devil's advocate" just to keep the debate going.
                                "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                                Comment

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