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Take This Impeachment And Shove It...

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  • Watermelon
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    You could infer it, I suppose, but there are many other reasons a president chooses to use unofficial channels. For instance, Ukraine had tried to contact the US concerning Joe Biden on several occasions, but they were repeatedly stonewalled in the official channels by Obama holdovers. It wasn't until Guilani got involved that they started making forward progress.
    Could you provide more information on the Ukrainians concerns over Biden? I’m genuinely interested.

    On an unrelated note, it’s amazing how many people in government are seemingly still so loyal to Obama. He sounds like a great guy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    Which kind of supports their claim that Trump was doing the investigation for personal reasons.
    You could infer it, I suppose, but there are many other reasons a president chooses to use unofficial channels. For instance, Ukraine had tried to contact the US concerning Joe Biden on several occasions, but they were repeatedly stonewalled in the official channels by Obama holdovers. It wasn't until Guilani got involved that they started making forward progress.

    Leave a comment:


  • oxmixmudd
    replied
    Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
    The reputation of the SCOTUS is in his hands;

    “Do you solemnly swear that in all things appertaining to the trial of the impeachment of Donald John Trump, president of the United States, now pending, you will do impartial justice according to the Constitution and laws, so help you God?” Grassley asked.
“I do,” Roberts said.
    I have no confidence any of them will honor their oaths in this regard.

    Leave a comment:


  • JimL
    replied
    Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
    The reputation of the SCOTUS is in his hands;

    “Do you solemnly swear that in all things appertaining to the trial of the impeachment of Donald John Trump, president of the United States, now pending, you will do impartial justice according to the Constitution and laws, so help you God?” Grassley asked.
“I do,” Roberts said.
    Would impartial justice include the admissability of relevant witnesses and documentary evidence?

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    In that case, yes, Guilianni was acting as a personal representative of his client, and he never presented himself as anything else as far as I know. He never claimed to be establishing official policy, or speaking on behalf of the United States government.
    Which kind of supports their claim that Trump was doing the investigation for personal reasons.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    I meant that Giuliani making a point of telling Zelensky he was going over there as a personal representative of Trump instead of as a representative of the President/Government. Looks bad given that the democrats are accusing Trump of doing it for personal reasons.
    In that case, yes, Guilianni was acting as a personal representative of his client, and he never presented himself as anything else as far as I know. He never claimed to be establishing official policy, or speaking on behalf of the United States government.

    Leave a comment:


  • firstfloor
    replied
    The reputation of the SCOTUS is in his hands;

    “Do you solemnly swear that in all things appertaining to the trial of the impeachment of Donald John Trump, president of the United States, now pending, you will do impartial justice according to the Constitution and laws, so help you God?” Grassley asked.
“I do,” Roberts said.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Not really. There is a long tradition of presidents using unofficial advisors and ambassadors going all the way back to George Washington. The following article is worth the time to read as it documents the fascinating history of "shadow diplomacy" in US presidential politics:

    https://www.realclearinvestigations....ry_120883.html
    I meant that Giuliani making a point of telling Zelensky he was going over there as a personal representative of Trump instead of as a representative of the President/Government. Looks bad given that the democrats are accusing Trump of doing it for personal reasons.
    Last edited by Sparko; 01-16-2020, 12:29 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Senator Marsha Blackburn:

    "The impeaching process took place in the House. If they wanted to call these witnesses, they could have called them. It is not our job to expand the impeachment. It is our job to review what they have sent forward, and that’s exactly what we’re going to do.

    "We’re going to do it in an expedient manner, we’re going to be fair to the president and to the process, and we’re going to get this behind us."

    https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2020...-sent-forward/

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    OK I admit that the whole "personal attorney" bit looks bad...
    Not really. There is a long tradition of presidents using unofficial advisors and ambassadors going all the way back to George Washington. The following article is worth the time to read as it documents the fascinating history of "shadow diplomacy" in US presidential politics:

    https://www.realclearinvestigations....ry_120883.html

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam View Post
    It's a complicated one. JustSecurity keeps theirs pretty well updated (doesn't look like the recent Parnas/Giuliani documents have been added yet). Two events that bracket the Giuliani letter:



    April 24: Ambassador Yovanavich is suddenly recalled to USA.

    May 10: Giuliani letter to Zelensky (Giuliani cancels trip on May 11)

    May 13: Trump orders Pence to not attend Zelensky inauguration.

    --Sam
    OK I admit that the whole "personal attorney" bit looks bad and I am taking a second look at all this. But I still don't see any evidence of quid pro quo there. Nor any actual admission that it was regarding Biden. Or to aid Trump in the election.

    But if the House Intelligence had all this evidence, and it does convict Trump, why wasn't it brought up at the impeachment hearing? Why didn't they actually subpoena Giuliani? It seems to me that they didn't do a proper job of presenting evidence at the impeachment. And now they want to do it at the Senate and they leaked it because the Senate was saying they were not going to allow witnesses.

    Leave a comment:


  • MaxVel
    replied
    CNM = Cable News Mafia?

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    CNM = CNN. That's what I get for trying to post from my phone without my glasses.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Even CNM says Pelosi's theatrics were "jarring" and "off message".

    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethba...rring-n2559599

    Leave a comment:


  • JimL
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Pelosi uses two dozen souvenir pens to sign the articles of impeachment and then eagerly hands them out to Democrat congressmen afterwards. But she's very saddened by this solemn occasion (giggle giggle).

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...f-impeachment/
    Ah, don't let it get to you, MM. Using multiple pens is a bit of a tradition in Washington. And souvenirs are nice to have. Can you imagine what they'll be worth, I mean personally of course, after the lawless wannabe dictator is convicted?

    Leave a comment:

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